£1/2 7 handed.

V1 fairly nitty middle aged guy. Up a little for the session, only gone to showdown twice and has shown strong hands twice. Both were sets with 1010.

V2 young friendly Asian guy. Decent player. Plays Laggy but not overly. Probably been involved in 40% of pots in last 2 orbits. Stuck for session without going to showdown.

Hero is known as quite a lag player but hasn't been out of line today.

Utg folds
Hero (£540) raises to £9 with AA
Fold
V2 (£480) calls £9
V1 (covers) raises to £26
Fold
Fold
Hero raises to £75
V2 Call £75
V1 Call £75

Pot £228

Flop 78J

Hero? Very curious as to what people think is optimal. Effective stacks are now £465.

Interesting spot as we rarely see 4-bet pots 3-ways to the flop. I like PF line except I would have raised a bit more initially.

Without the Ah, this is a pretty terrible flop for AA, but the 4-bet calling ranges change the dynamic a bit.

V1's range is probably limited to JJ+, AKs. V2's is probably slightly wider including some smaller pairs to set-mine. With V2 in the mix, nitty V1 probably would have 5-bet AA/KK and maybe even folded JJ/AK, so I would expect QQ more often but the rest of the range is possible.

SPR is just above 2 so you don't have much wiggle room.

I think we probably only get value from KK/QQ if they hold a heart and we obviously can't bluff a better hand. Makes betting seem somewhat wrong but checking is worse (check/folding being better than check-calling however).

VERY tough spot. I think I continue betting here (~150) with a plan to fold if V1 or both shove, and call if V2 shoves (thinking V2 has more bluffs/semibluffs in him). Gross.

Wow. Heart attack, if you will. I'd check/fold flop. Unimproved, I'd Bet/ fold turn; Check fold river. Passive, I know, but this is a terrible flop.

It's kind of akward because if you bet and ever fold its going to be +EV for the laggy dude to just put it in with the Ah and all of his value hands. He can def have AK here.

Pot is big enough to get it in vs the other nitty play, especially if you bet, though your equity probably won't be >40%.

If you check and the middle dude leads and gets raised - then you are in a super gross spot though I guess you could stove it. Is nitty guy gonna bet his overpairs without a heart? B/C If not you cant really check raise at all. Check raise is best if the nitty guy is gonna fire with Ah and his overpairs.

Is nitty guy going to raise flop if you check, asian guy bets and he holds KhKd QhQd?

3rd players stack matters alot.

Probably just betting 175 and shoving the turn if its not a heart. Vs the nitty guy, I doubt he is going to turn black QQ/KK into a bluff that often. I'd consider being a hero if he bets something really gay otr after checking back a heart turn tho.

You also have enough equity to just cram, idk what ppl will do with their Ah or black QQ/KK but you probably lose value this way. I doubt they fold turn with a black overpair after calling flop. Also doubt they fold flop.

V1 is nitty but he is aware of both myself and V2 as being lag "bullies". Therefore I think his 3bet/flat pre is wider than we would normally expect. I'm going to guess at 99-QQ, AK and AQs. He 100% gets KK in pre. His stack is around £650. V2 is alot harder to range here. I think we can assume this flop will hit him hard often though.

I think if either player has naked K or A they call when I bet or bet when I check. V1 when holding QQ would call flop bit not sure what he would do if checked to him.

Also what will our turn line be if we bet flop and get called by 1 or both Vs.

Grunch

Wow, you say that V1 is decent? I don't know many decent players that flat an open and then after a nit 3bet's gets 4bet, flat the 4bet with the nit still left to act... There is basically no justification for this play lol.

All that aside... The nit likely has got KK-JJ, possibly with a heart. There is also the small possibility that he's got a hand like AKs. V1 likely has a small PP. I would probably bet the flop for $150.

Not sure why everyone thinks this is the worst flop in the world. I mean if we are beat here, it's likely by a set. JJ from V2, or 77/88 from V1. Unfortunately, there are three hearts, making it pretty easy for both players to out draw us, which sucks. But yeah, like I said, bet flop for $150, see what happens.

It's a terrible flop because we may be crushed, ahead but vulnerable, or have difficulty extracting value from the few hands we are WA of.

We're actually even behind hands like ThTx and 9h9x, which may stick it all in.

I wouldn't fault a c/f here.

Worst flop ever, but we haz the aces so I am betting 150-175 on the flop and probably calling a shove due to the major possibility of Ah and Kh shoving over any bet. Sucky spot, but this is either a check/fold or all-in at some point. I could go either way on this one.

Bet 160/evaluate imo. The 3bettor probably had kk/qq. I'd probably get it in vs him but pass to the other guy of he shoved

I think i'll have to repeat here that V1 NEVER has KK here. I'll post results soon.

Why are we "very deep" with an SPR of only 2 on the flop? You put in more than 10% of your stack preflop (probably, correctly) to setup good SPR for playing an overpair. But once put the 10% you should have had a commitment plan, right? What is our commitment plan PREFLOP ?

Bet pot/call. This is a 4-bet pot so either: their ranges are weighted toward pairs 88+ and AK/AQs or their ranges are so wide that you can't say "this is a LAG's board, I give up" because they're going to have all sorts of crap. In both cases you are doing well enough against ranges and as armor says, the SPR is 2, so let's grit our teeth and put the money in.

Obviously I know what I will do with my hand on alot of flops and also obviously just getting it in pre where possible. However in this scenario of both Vs calling and the flop being pretty terrible for our hand. I don't think my post flop skills are ample for optimally dealing with the situation. I made a decision at the time and will post results at some point but for now I want to know what others will do given the action so far. I feel my pf play is fine except for maybe making it 85ish with 4 bet.

I disagree with pot/call here, if we bet pot here then it goes, shove, reshove then surely a fold is best? Bet closer to 175?

Yeah, the flop is bad, but I mean, we aren't afraid of hearts unless another one falls... right? I'm way more worried about any flop that contains two different face cards than this flop (tens on the flop are also bad). Flops like:

KQX, KJX, QJX, KTX, QJT, JTX, KQT, KQJ, QTX.

If V2 is smart, which it does't seem that he is since he flatted a 4bet, he will know that all pocket pairs are virtually equal in this spot (unless he's got QQ or whatever and thinks his hand is best) and that he is set mining. This means we have to be "afraid" of all flops since if he is calling with 99 to set mine, he is calling will JJ-22 for the same reason.

Well it is true, that 9h9x and ThTx are slightly ahead equity wise, It would be incorrect to fold versus those types of hands since there is so much money in the pot already, we can never not have adequate equity to put the rest of the money in. i.e.. Folding and losing whatever is in the pot 100% of the time is a bigger mistake than having 42% equity when stacks go in.

I think that there is way to much value to be extracted from KhKx, QhQx, KxKx and QxQx no heart, other PP's with a heart, and other high card combo's with a heart. Also, If we bet, and V2 folds 4h4x, that is good since he will be folding his ~35% equity or whatever it actually turns out to be.

At this point I'm thinking that we bet and fold to a jam from V2, which would be super strong with V1 still left to act. If we bet, V2 folds, and V1 jams, call since he can still have KhKx, QhQx, or the unlikely, but possible, naked Ah or Kh.

Why results are interesting in any way? Don't post them as your question is about flop decision.
Like others said, you are doing well against most part of your opponent ranges except flopped sets and flushes. You don't want to give a free card to flush draws, so bet at least 2/3 pot; once you bet this amount, you are auto-committed, so call a raise/shove.

Bet pot call is terrible.

think a check is pretty optimal in this situation. c/decide to whether stick it in if you sense some tells or maybe c/fold if you see extremely strength by both of them. also controls the pot someway and, if it´s checked, to get cheaply away on really horrible turns like 9hearts or bet with a lot more equity on blanks.

c/evaluate imo.

Do you mean that if we intend to bet/call, we should bet less than pot? If yes, how much?

Or do you mean something else, then explain ?

What's so wrong with a bet fold here? I don't think we have to call a shove.
Results are interesting because of tue actual flop action so I may aswell keep it to this thread but flop is definitely where the biggest decision is.

I don't like to put more than a third of my stack in and fold.