The room I play at, like many rooms with an extremely high rake ($25 cap), plays with The Rock. The game is 2-5 NL, and if you have the Rock and are UTG or the button preflop, you must put out the Rock. It represents a $15 straddle. Winner of the pot, gets the Rock. It can't be cashed out until the game breaks (though does count for $15 in all-in situations).

The game plays extremely big, partly because of the Rock, partly because of the crowd/stacks. Average stack is probably ~$1500. Average pot size is probably $400 (this might be low to be honest). Almost every pot is capped.

Recently, they've introduced a variant that I've never seen before, and I wanted to get some strategic thoughts: If you are straddling with the Rock, you now have the option, before any other action, to pay $15 into the pot for a 3rd card. You look at all three hole cards, decide one to send back, it's revealed to the table, and then the action proceeds as normal. You are allowed to look at your hole cards before paying the $15.

In this context, what hands would you pay the $15 with and in which position? (Wider range on the button I'd imagine). How much you should increase your estimate of the hand strength of other players who pay the $15?

Preflop hand strength should significantly increase, but I can't tell if we're talking double, or almost a full tripling. It seems like A-blank is worth $15, while 2-7 is not.

Thoughts?

This is a stupid game. Just pick the best hand for the situation.

Wait so do you make the decision for the 3rd card before or after you see the first two?

Sucker game. The rock (and the 3rd card variant) are just enticements to get more money into the pot, and with a $25 cap rake, off the table.

The best strategical advice: Don't play this game.

But if you do: Just sell the rock whenever you win it. Let someone else be forced to shovel money in with a questionable hand oop.

After. You can look at your hole cards, see aces and pass, or you can see As3d and take a card.

With respect to the insane rake, there are large bonuses which somewhat make up for it. There's a 20% buyin bonus (capped at $200) for instance. More generally, the quality of play is so low that it's hard to imagine the game isn't profitable with a pretty simple nut peddling strategy.

A tremendous amount of money leaves the table (probably $900/hour), but the stacks only grow in size due to the constant rebuys from players, so that's not actually a crushing issue.

Sounds like a lot of fun... Yeah the rake sucks, but if the game is super soft and you can figure out a good strat for the game i'm sure it's very beatable for a good WR.

Considering it sounds like this game plays wild, here's what I would do...

I'd buy in for 1k every time, get the 20% bonus, and then just play HELLA tight. Do not LAG this game at all because of the rake. You want to enter as few pots as possible, you want them to be massive pots every time.

The rock gets you in to the pot for free, so i'd only sell it if I can change the felting equity of my hand drastically. I.e. if I have J8, I wouldn't give up the rock. I don't want hands that are going to hit TPTK since i'm going to be playing very few pots (due to the rake). I don't want hands where I c-bet take it down either. I want a felter or nothing. I think this is one of the few types of games where it might be profitable to spend a little money setting up a false LAG image early in the game. I.e. squeeze with a hand like 78o to 130 pre and show it whether you lose or win.

I'd give up the rock for A6o-A9o and K2o to K8o. That's pretty much it. My raising range pre would be very tight and sizing would be huge to make SPR low. This goes even more so if there is no flop-no drop.

That's all I got off the top of my head.

What stops your from taking the buy in bonus and never playing a hand?

Nothing, but most games with the bonus structure require a minimum of X hours at the table (or a bust out) before you can cash out. Games like this usually play pretty fast as the dealer/house are pushing to keep action going to get rake/earn the bonuses back.

Also, do that a few times and you won't be let back in the games.

These games are beatable in the right circumstances but it is tough (ask me how I know.)

Definitely a structure where LAG play burns money.

If you take the bonus, you're not allowed to cash out up money for 4 hours.

The game quality is so low that other than the 2-3 semi-pros who live off this game that people will payoff regardless. I essentially play the tightest possible game (no c-betting, minimal semi-bluffing), and I get paid off pretty much as often as anyone else. I don't play very often anymore however, so possibly it's because a single 7-10 hour session doesn't give off a nitty enough reputation. With more regular play, some early LAG-ing might be needed.

Do you have any thoughts about how much to raise hand strength estimates? Pretty much everyone but me always pays the $15 for the 3rd card. They then get to decide on the best coordinated of 3 possible hands (Card 1-2, Card 2-3, Card 1-3). As we know from PLO, this massively raises hand strength. But since it's being done pro-flop, maybe the effect isn't actually that strong. It's still just a two card hand to the flop.

My concern is mostly about get coolered excessively via this rule. As I don't play many pots, I rarely end up with the rock in the first place, so my own 3rd card strategy is less of an issue. I'm mostly concerned about set over set becoming a three times more likely or something.

The thing to keep in mind is that the likeliehood that they have any particular holding doesn't actually change on the flop.

So, if they have a two card hand going to the flop, and they have a pocket pair they are 1 in 8 to hit a set on the flop. When the buy the third card, and then see a flop, when they have a pocket pair they are still 1 in 8 to hit a set.

So we need to adjust their range to be more heavily weighted towards higher quality hands. But once we determine their range, and see the flop, it doesn't change the likeliehood that they have any one individual hand.

Also... The third (discarded) card is shown to the table before the flop? Missive info on that players hand IMO. If they are ever giving up an A, you know they don't have Ax and probably have a PP...

That's a good point. Makes for some interesting calculus, but also makes taking the 3rd card much more dubious as players adjust. Right now it's a new rule, but even a soft table adjusts eventually.

at what point does the player with the rock have to decide to put in the extra 15? when action is on them? so, if they're the button, and there's two raises in front of them, they can look, pay 15, see three cards and then fold?

sounds like an interesting game.