Turning pairs into bluffs when people are bet/folding overpairs nowadays - Page 2 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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Turning pairs into bluffs when people are bet/folding overpairs nowadays

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05-13-2018 , 04:38 AM

#26

momo_uk

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koss

You can be more creative, and it's not just a 2018 thing. The title of this forum is Live Low Stakes No Limit. One key reason this forum exists on its own is because these games tend to have a certain player pool in them that continues making the same mistakes day after day and year after year. Those primary mistakes are:

1. Villains play too many hands pre-flop.

2. Villains aren't aggressive enough with their strong hands.

3. Villains call too lightly.

4. Villains don't bluff very often.

The best counter strategies to maximize profits against these average 1/2 villains is to play more aggressively, value bet relentlessly, bluff when they show weakness, and fold when they show strength.

Where you can get more creative and deviate from play designed to beat the average villain is when you have experience and reads on a specific villain. TAGs/nits can be bluffed more. Drunken maniacs can make for some interesting game dynamics. Once you have narrowed down a villains specific tendencies you can deviate from what would be considered an "optimal" 1/2 strategy into one that targets specific opponents. However those spots tend to make for tricky threads, because you are the ones with all the reads on the players, not us. I try not to make threads on hands where I'm playing against someone who I feel I have a solid read on, because when reads are they key decision maker in a hand, the advice is often skewed by people's perception of my described villain, which defeats the purpose.

Absolutely true. So in short, I cannot really discuss these kind of hands on here because those reads about Vs holdings and strength/weakness are specific in real time that only I can sense and decide what to do with my hand, so I can never really re-create that dynamic on here and ask for opinions on my “non-standard” play.

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05-13-2018 , 09:30 AM

#27

Tomark

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 3,410

This is QQ+ at the absolute weakest, dude gets it in all day. I would be shocked if he folded or even if he called but only had JJ.

People now a days dont B/F overpairs. Especially not on T73ssh

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05-13-2018 , 09:50 AM

#28

momo_uk

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomark

This is QQ+ at the absolute weakest, dude gets it in all day. I would be shocked if he folded or even if he called but only had JJ.

People now a days dont B/F overpairs. Especially not on T73ssh

Maybe you just play vs stationy opponents. V sigh-folded.

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05-13-2018 , 10:00 AM

#29

Koss

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 7,149

did he show?

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05-13-2018 , 10:40 AM

#30

momo_uk

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koss

did he show?

With disgust to his neighbour. Assume he had AK/AQ or JJ like always.

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05-13-2018 , 12:08 PM

#31

johnnyBuz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 7,699

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avaritia

You'd want a rainbow flop with 1 club fwiw.

Mostly this with a side of choosing spots that don’t consist of uncapped OOP 3bet ranges.

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05-13-2018 , 12:21 PM

#32

cheesefist

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 376

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

With disgust to his neighbour. Assume he had AK/AQ or JJ like always.

So you are conceding that most likely he didn't have an overpair? Which was the point of this thread?

Getting him to fold overcards to a reraise in a hand which you outflopped him is a less interesting discussion I guess.

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05-13-2018 , 12:38 PM

#33

snowman

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,754

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

If you are making a play based solely on your read of a player inspite of math and % then GREAT

works or fails you went with your read in that moment.
I am all for that . I know I'm in the minority

but you are correct very few will back you on it as WE aren't there.

the point is to get you to define what you based your read on?

players can shift gears and get stubborn without realizing it
so don't push these small edges enough to get them to see it.
congrats

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05-13-2018 , 02:50 PM

#34

hyperknit

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 2,718

I believe 89s is the hand to use. It has 8 outs rather than 5.
Unless u think we want more than 4 bluff combos here, which I doubt we do.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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05-14-2018 , 01:31 AM

#35

Phil Me Up

adept

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 808

Quote:

Originally Posted by momo_uk

Maybe you just play vs stationy opponents. V sigh-folded.

Grats. Doesn't mean it wasn't spew.

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05-14-2018 , 02:08 AM

#36

Viral25

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 1,857

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyperknit

I believe 89s is the hand to use. It has 8 outs rather than 5.
Unless u think we want more than 4 bluff combos here, which I doubt we do.

89s has enough equity to just flat the cbet, and if we are wrong and V shoves, we have to fold that equity. 76s would be a better candidate, although it also should have enough equity to call vs the perceived range.

Personally i'd prefer J9s/J8s that have less equity + outs to the nuts + blocks JJ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avaritia

You'd want a rainbow flop with 1 club fwiw.

Avaritia on point, as usual.

Btw, not having a raising range on this board is perfectly fine also, assuming deepish stacks. Lots of bluffing opportunities on a variety of runouts, specially if V is correctly ranged.

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05-14-2018 , 11:04 AM

#37

mdelore

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,315

+1 to bluffing runouts and dry boards generally speaking

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05-14-2018 , 12:35 PM

#38

shorn7

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,495

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

Mostly this with a side of choosing spots that don’t consist of uncapped OOP 3bet ranges.

Johnny do you consider it an uncapped spot because of his 3! sizing pre? More of a sweetener than a true 3!?

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05-15-2018 , 02:12 AM

#39

momo_uk

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 2,546

^ Saw someone do the same thing today, 11 to 25 from this blinds.. guy had JJ.. lol

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