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Turning 4-high flopped flush into bluff over an AI in multiway pot after a mono-tone turn?!?! Turning 4-high flopped flush into bluff over an AI in multiway pot after a mono-tone turn?!?!

04-28-2018 , 02:31 AM
$1/3 (8-handed)
Game started out infested w/ really solid players. Transitioned to maniac, maniac got felted, solid players left, and now it's a standard $1/3 game.

H ($1,100) BTN Straddle to $6.
3 callers, H checks 4d2d on the button.

Flop ($21)
10d9d5d
V1 ($250) EP standard weak tight opens for $15.
V2 ($416) MP MAIG also weak tight flats the $15.
V3 ($257) LP 30's WG, weak tight, flats the $15.
H makes it $60. Very draw heavy board, I should be ahead, raise for value. No need to get crazy here. Obviously could have raised larger, into the $80-90 range.

V1 folds, V2 flats, V3 flats.

Turn ($201)
Kd
V2 checks, V3 checks. H? Do I turn my 4-high flush into a bluff? I have the think I'm not ahead right now most of the time. The nut flush would probably check it to me, but so would smaller flushes. I think I can credibly rep the nut flush here and can maybe get several pair and diamond hands to fold. Of I can bemoan my bad-luck with the turn diamond and fold to the obvious higher diamond one of the V's must have.

H decides that there are more foldable flushes in V's ranges than nut flushes and fires on the turn. H raises $130. Thoughts? I can certainly get behind a check back, but I think against 2 weak-tight V's it might work from time to time.

V2 tanks for a full minute and flats the $130. V3 stacks up his remaining $191 and raises over the top all-in. $61 to me into a $651 with another $61 surely coming in from V2 so essentially $61 into $712 on a 4-flush turn w/ the 4 high flush. Clearly the turn bet was an F'ing disaster.

It's now abundantly clear that V3 has the nut flush like 90+% of the time and V2 has a weaker flush like 90+% of the time. So do you fold for $61, call the $61 and pray you're up against a ridiculous set and straight, or set and set or do you reraise here to at least put V2 to the test. Reraising creates at least 2 low probability scenario's that might lead to H minimizing losses. V2 could fold to the reraise and V3 is on a set or straight (unlikely but at least possible). Other possibility is that because V3 clearly has the nuts, it at least creates a side pot with V2 where he could also have maybe a set or straight and H could recover V2's $149 from the side pot.

H?

I fully expect to get flamed for this hand. I really think I have to raise on the flop but definitely could have shut down on the turn. Appreciate the feedback.
Turning 4-high flopped flush into bluff over an AI in multiway pot after a mono-tone turn?!?! Quote
04-28-2018 , 03:11 AM
Lol, what?!

Raise bigger on the flop.

You should be completely done with the hand OTT. Two callers aren't going anywhere.

AP, insta-muck. You have 0% equity.
Turning 4-high flopped flush into bluff over an AI in multiway pot after a mono-tone turn?!?! Quote
04-28-2018 , 12:11 PM
You priced in sets and Ad on the flop with the teeny raise. Should make it like $100.

Turn was obv terrible and do not call the $61.
Turning 4-high flopped flush into bluff over an AI in multiway pot after a mono-tone turn?!?! Quote
04-28-2018 , 12:12 PM
Your flop raise is okay. Could have been bigger. I would have checked back the turn. AP this is a must fold.
Turning 4-high flopped flush into bluff over an AI in multiway pot after a mono-tone turn?!?! Quote
04-28-2018 , 01:29 PM
This is by far the worst hand i’ve Played in the 1,000 hrs at least. Table was crazy tough to start and I was locked in playing my A game. Then super aggro 100% open to $25 guy was on my immediate left and I was locked in. Then, all the challenging players were gone and I lost focus and donked off $600+ in half an hour. Good reminder for me.
Turning 4-high flopped flush into bluff over an AI in multiway pot after a mono-tone turn?!?! Quote
04-28-2018 , 01:33 PM
2 weak tight players calling an open and a raise on monotone flop and then a flush card comes? One them was likely fishing with a higher diamond. Definitely don't think this is a good bluffing spot.
Turning 4-high flopped flush into bluff over an AI in multiway pot after a mono-tone turn?!?! Quote
04-29-2018 , 02:38 AM
I would say the small flop raise ironically helped you save money by check/folding once the turn comes but then you went and torched more cash with the turn bet. Like others have said, flop raise needs to be bigger and once 4th diamond comes you should be done with it against two opponents. Just too likely that at least one of them has a Xd card higher than 4d.
Turning 4-high flopped flush into bluff over an AI in multiway pot after a mono-tone turn?!?! Quote
04-29-2018 , 07:52 AM
I don't know if the flop raise should be much bigger. I don't want to value own myself against higher flushes and I don't particularly mind them coming along with diamond draws.

I'm not even gonna comment on the turn and river...
Turning 4-high flopped flush into bluff over an AI in multiway pot after a mono-tone turn?!?! Quote
04-29-2018 , 09:47 AM
Yeah, you guys are obviously right on the money. I think the flop raise is standard, sizing is up for discussion but we're in the right ballpark. The logic behind V's being weak-tight and H turning hand into a bluff expecting V's to fold a better flush was stupid.

I think when I flopped the flush I started counting the pot as mine and then went on some stupid form of tilt when the 4th diamond come trying to salvage the pot that I felt was mine. Should have lost $60 on this hand, not $400. Like I mentioned earlier ITT I haven't had a hand where tilt significantly affected me that I recall in at least the last 1,000 hrs, probably more. This is how you turn a $600-700 winning night into a $150 winning. 4 hrs of hard work down the drain because of losing focus for 2 minutes.

Comically enough, V2 had Qd3d so he flopped a larger flush and I was screwed from the get go. V3 had Ad9c so he flopped a pair and the nut flush draw.
Turning 4-high flopped flush into bluff over an AI in multiway pot after a mono-tone turn?!?! Quote
04-29-2018 , 10:03 AM
Lol at how V2 played the hand.
Turning 4-high flopped flush into bluff over an AI in multiway pot after a mono-tone turn?!?! Quote
04-30-2018 , 11:31 AM
I'm not convinced putting in 2bb blind (even on the Button) is better than not doing that.

One of the reasons putting in money blind preflop is meh is we end up playing hands we shouldn't be playing. 42s simply has far too much RIO to be worth playing, imo. Anyhoo, with "don't go broke in a limped pot" ringing in my ears, facing a bet and 2 callers on this board I might just flat and evaluate the turn; I mean, that's a heckuva lotta action for this board.

ETA: If we are raising the flop, I'm actually ok with our sizing. We offered the first guy not-quite-3:1 and anyone chasing the Ad 4-to-a-flush has horrible IO, so it's a bad call on their part (if the overcaller has the Ad they are about breakeven on the call). Meanwhile, we're not exactly looking to build a monster pot (which is why I would consider not even raising in the first place).

I'm done with the hand on the turn. Too good a chance one of these guys called with the nut flush draw and got there.

Gnotreallyafanofanystreet,imoG
Turning 4-high flopped flush into bluff over an AI in multiway pot after a mono-tone turn?!?! Quote
04-30-2018 , 02:41 PM
Pre is standard although if you are running over a weak tight table, I've raised here before

I don't mind the flop all that much, but when I get 2 callers I'm probably close to done.

How is the turn anything other than a check/fold when you raised so little on the flop and got action?
Turning 4-high flopped flush into bluff over an AI in multiway pot after a mono-tone turn?!?! Quote

      
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