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Turn play in multi-way <img / pot Turn play in multi-way <img / pot

11-26-2012 , 01:25 AM
History: [Short version --> I've been running well and my image, for the observant, would be that I'm playing tightly.] I'm in the game for $510, and currently have about $540 in front of me. I had been as low as $50 (with no money left to reload). No one at the table was there during that time, but I played very tightly since that time and these players haveseen that tightness.

Villian #1: [Short version --> Luck-oriented draw-lover.] Recently moved into the seat directly behind me, but I think the move was to try and pick up some new mojo, not for any positional advantage. I've seen her call much-too-large portions of her short stack in far-too-small pots while on draws, but never have seen her show down a second-pair type hand in those same spots.

Villian #2: [Short version --> Passive Nit.]She has folded most hands pre-flop and limped a majority of the pots she has entered. Her pre-flop raises all represented significant strength, though once she flatted from the blinds with KK in a multi-way pot.

Action: 8-handed, $1-$2.
UTG folds.
HERO opens the pot to $8 with 66.
VILLIAN #1, UTG+1 ($90) calls behind.
HJ folds.
CO folds.
VILLIAN #2 ($110) calls behind.
VILLIAN #3, SB ($300) calls behind.
BB folds.

Pre-flop thoughts: I raised up the pot here because I was trying to play a few more hands per orbit in order to capitalize upon my tight image. Also, the table overall was pretty straight forward and I felt as if I could play two sixes profitably, even with a raise.

Flop comes 524; pot is $34
HERO bets $26
VILLIAN #1 calls $26.
VILLIAN #2 calls $26.
VILLIAN #3 folds.

Flop thoughts: [Short version --> I think I'm winning, but am unsure how my hand stacks up against two ranges. Opponents are short. How often can I jam turn?] I bet the flop for value, but bet a majority of the pot, hoping to thin the field to perhaps one opponent, as it would make evaluating the strength of my hand easier. After these particular opponents come along, I feel as if I'm almost certainly ahead of one and not totally certain as to where I'm at with the other, though I think I'm ahead most of the time. I definitely don't feel as if I'm drawing dead and really doubt that I'm up against a lock-hand. Because my opponents have short stacks, I really don't think they're going to fold the turn a whole lot either. Nonetheless, I feel like I ought to keep on the pressure when I can. What turn cards is it safe to jam? (Am I actually in a spot where I can jam anything profitably?)


After you've decided what cards it is safe to jam, you can click the spoiler to see what actually fell.
Spoiler:
Turn (Pot - $100): Ac
Turn play in multi-way <img / pot Quote
11-26-2012 , 02:44 AM
You played your cards for a set. Unless the turn is a 3 or a 7, i'm done with the hand. Sure, you probably have the best hand, but are you going to put more money in the pot if the turn is a face card or an A? I'm not. I don't care how tight my image is.
Turn play in multi-way <img / pot Quote
11-26-2012 , 03:01 AM
give up on turn, both Vs are super short, like less than a psb left meaning theyve basically committed themselves to this hand and i cannot see you winning this 3way
Turn play in multi-way <img / pot Quote
11-26-2012 , 05:05 AM
Ugh.

Against V1 I'd jam any non-heart. There are straight and flush draws that she could be chasing very easily. Against that player profile I'm punishing her for drawing.

But against V2 I hate a lot of turns. Any face card is awful, hearts are not great, an A is 50/50. If she's got a big AQ type hand then hitting the A or Q is going to keep here in the hand, but if she's on a TT type hand then she might nit-fold when an A or K drops since she "put you on AK". Obviously a 3 is a shove.

The problem is that you're against both, and they've both called the flop. So either they've connected with the board in some way or they think your FOS (unlikely).

I feel like this comes down to the table dynamic and better reads on the players. Some nits will fold everything but a lock when facing a big (relative to their stack) bet and a call. So you may have fold equity against V2 even when she has JJ (lollivenits). I probably watch V2's face when the turn hits to see if it helped her, then jam if it looks like she's disappointed.

Last edited by Angrist; 11-26-2012 at 05:12 AM. Reason: Submitted too soon.
Turn play in multi-way <img / pot Quote
11-26-2012 , 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrist
Against V1 I'd jam any non-heart. There are straight and flush draws that she could be chasing very easily. Against that player profile I'm punishing her for drawing.

But against V2 I hate a lot of turns. Any face card is awful, hearts are not great, an A is 50/50. If she's got a big AQ type hand then hitting the A or Q is going to keep here in the hand, but if she's on a TT type hand then she might nit-fold when an A or K drops since she "put you on AK". Obviously a 3 is a shove.

The problem is that you're against both, and they've both called the flop. So either they've connected with the board in some way or they think your FOS (unlikely).

I feel like this comes down to the table dynamic and better reads on the players. Some nits will fold everything but a lock when facing a big (relative to their stack) bet and a call. So you may have fold equity against V2 even when she has JJ (lollivenits). I probably watch V2's face when the turn hits to see if it helped her, then jam if it looks like she's disappointed.
I definitely agree I'm not too worried about V1, even with most turn cards. V2 scares me, so I'm probly Checking almost any turn to see what they do, unless of course the turn is a 3 or even 6, in which case I'm jamming. I don't mind a 7 or even 8 to c/c with if V2 bets meek, but be ready to c/f river if bets again or heart comes and V1 is still in too and neither jammed turn. I would absolutely be trying to read V2 as turn comes, with a quick glance to V1 immediately after my initial read, then back to 2.
C/f turn isn't at all a terrible option. They're weak/easy to play against, there are better spots. might be a game time decision just based on my read..
Turn play in multi-way <img / pot Quote
11-26-2012 , 11:17 AM
preflop raise I don't mind...I do it all the time with small pairs....However, the one exception is when I face a lot of short stacks...here you have shown two...If one other player had 100 or less, and there was not a big fish with 300 or something...I would just limp or even fold if limped pots get attaked.

flop fine...
turn, a bit tricky...I would be tempted to fire with a non herat K or a Q as well as a 3. though with the short stacks I'm probably just giving up.

The thing is V2 has 77-QQ 36 combos, A3s 4 combo's, and flush draws for 15ish combo
A King or Q will fold out a lot of that.... Also he may be scared the check to you with the drawy board so a check a second time, would mark some weakness.

V1 is harder to put on a hand but your ahead of his calling range.

Its close but you pretty much have to shove the turn given stack sizes...so I probably just check and give up.
Turn play in multi-way <img / pot Quote

      
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