Horseshoe Cleveland 1/2 NL.

Villain just sat with with 1k from a must move. He seems like a rec, plays 2/5. Hero is late 20s tag. I have been pretty active with two 3b and one 4b in the last hour and a half, not sure if he even noticed.

Villain straddles to 5 and hero is OTB. Eff stacks 240.

Utg limps, folds to hero who raises to 20 with AQo. Straddle calls, utg folds.

(Pot: 48) Flop: AT5r. He checks, Hero bets 25, he calls pretty fast.

(Pot: 98) Turn: 5 completing the rainbow. Villain checks. Hero ?

Seems like a trivial b/b/b esp being ~48bb deep, but maybe it's good to throw in a b/c/b? Also are we b/f'ING at any point against a rec?

Yeah, keep betting for value for sure.

I would probably go ~60, and I do think you need to fold to a raise.

Yeah with the straddle it's kinda ~48BB effective, but the SPR is 5, so you're not that shallow.

I am still betting to. We gotta keep the lead in this hand, and he could be floating, or he could have a worse ace. I doubt he has a 5 obv, so I am not worried about that. Im not ruling out AK, but we might've heard from him pre or now if he did. A10 is a possibility. 10 10 maybe to I guess. Only two I am concerned about really. I don't know, I just feel we are good here most of the time so there isn't reason to check. I think even if I get raised, I am not necessarily tossing this hand.

I like bet/fold turn. You can get value from a worse A and that's Vs most likely holding here.
But, preflop, is $20 a little small with the straddle? And OtF, y bet $25, half pot. That feels a little small, too. When the bottom card on the board pairs, I'm more confident continuing to bet top pair good kicker when I've bet more relative to the size of the pot on the flop.
If this V is the type to call the flop with any piece, especially when you make a relatively smallish flop bet, you might pot control this. If you had bet $35/40 on the flop, then I think it's easier to continue turn. V was straddle where and defended against a small preflop raise then called a small flop bet. I think 5 is still very much in his range so OTT, you can either bet/fold or check back to pot control. Like I said, I like betting but I like it more if the earlier action was a little bugger.

I prefer over betting the flop to $65 or so, that way it looks like you missed and don't want a caller. You maximize against the times he has an ace which isn't going to fold, and get hero called by Tx and pocket pairs. It also sets up a weak turn bet of $60 into a $178 pot on the turn and even easier $95 into $300 on the river. Let people make the "I know I am beat, but the pot odds are so good" mistakes!

As played-
After the weak flop bet

Check the turn,

Bet 30 on the river

Hope Tx calls

Bet/fold ~$60 is good, but I do hate the fold part if he can bluff here. Check/call is an interesting line if you plan to bet/call river.

Bet turn $60. If called, plan on betting $100-$135 (shove) depending on your read of Villain going into river.

In the unlikely event that you get CRed on the turn, you have a tough decision. Usually, a turn CR means that AQ is no good, but it depends heavily on reads.

grunch:

Check the turn. Can AQo stand getting raised here? Nope. So why open the action up with a bet? Let's see the river and re-evaluate.

Use the power of position against him. If he either has a monster or bluffing, he will bet the river probably, in which case you just call pay him a little if he did have the monster. If he checks, well then that's fine too, just check and then you didn't pay off his monster. Don't pay him off when you only hold a pair (2 pair if you count the 5s) and he was being trappy with a monster. If he has AK, then nothing you can do. On to the next hand.

I guess I really don't understand the logic of re-opening the action when you have a medium strength hand that you have to fold if raised, when you could have closed the action and see another card with no flush draws. You have an okay hand that quite possibly could win at SD. If I am wrong, please let me know why, other than "OMG 1/2 PLAYERS ARE HORRIBAD AND WILL CALL WITH NOTHINGZ!!!"

In a BTN vs straddle spot my default here would be to just bet/bet. Checking back turn misses out on too much value against weaker Ax. There are other hands we can use as a bluff catch with a turn check back such as Ax suited hands.

What Ax hand will x/r the turn? What conceivable 5x hand can the villain have? Compare that to the amount of Ax hands that will x/c and you'll figure out why betting the turn is the much better option.

Oh I am sure he probably doesn't have a 5. But when you bet the turn and he calls, what is your plan on the river? Bet/fold again? He has already called 2 streets on a paired dry board. What info did you find out with that bet? Sure you know he may have an ace, hell he may have A10. You really think A10 or 1010 is raising you, no way, he is letting you hang yourself. I know if I had AJ/AQ (or any Ax) OOP I would x/r this turn. Wouldn't you? To put pressure and get the better Ace hands to fold here.

This is not a monster hand by any means, and can't stand a raise. Do you really want to stack off on the river with this? Because that is where this is headed. You will have a little more than 1/2 PSB behind. I'm sorry but you will still have no idea what he may hold after he calls the turn bet. At least with the check-behind, you will see WHAT HE DOES on the river. Maybe he takes a stab at it with his Ax, great we got an extra $50 out of him. I would count that as a decent $100 win with this hand. If he checks, you check behind and shows you 1010 or A10, I don't know about you, but I would be VERY happy with that play and only lost $45 total in this hand. If he bets, you call and only lost $100 when he shows up with 1010 or A10. Either way we need to get to SD, you aren't bluffing higher 2pair/fullhouse of this hand. In your case you lose $100 when he raises your turn bet NO SHOWDOWN, you lose $100 when you have to fold to his river bet NO SHOWDOWN. You have decent SD value, just get there cheaply when you can't stand a raise. You are just value owning yourself, overvalueing this hand.

Makes sense to check back turn when you can only get 2 streets of value.

You get called lighter on river and prevent the turn check-raise.

If you think there are 3 streets of value to be had against a passive player then bet the turn.

I posted this bc I was pretty much readless and felt this hand was really close between 2 and 3 streets of value. I am still pretty torn right in the middle.

I think sizing is just fine given stacks, especially if we are going for b/b/b. An argument can be made for bomb/check/bomb though.

I did plan on 3 streets so I bet 60 ott, he took about 4 seconds and shoved. Again, pretty readless other than he is plenty loose and plays bigger (and is up heaps). Consensus is b/f?

I mean he has to be jamming a gutshot on the turn on an A high paired board or turning Tx into a bluff for this to be a call and both of those scenarios seem pretty unlikely, especially when he only takes 4 sec to shove.

If he's bad enough to overvalue AJ you probably would've gotten that read by now.

Sucks to get jammed on but I still think bet/bet is best.

If you don't value-own yourself occasionally, you're not value-betting thinly enough.

Let's say the villain has a gutshot draw and will call bet OTT and will not bluff the river if he misses (which is the MO of most LLSNL players). Now we've missed a street of value. I'm not saying we will get three streets of value here, but I'd rather check behind on the river than miss value on the turn.

IOW, pot control is AIDS in LLSNL versus typical passive, show-down-happy villains.

I hear you about the value-own yourself occasionally, I get that. Not with this kind of hand I wouldn't. But aren't we talking about a villain that we know plays 2/5 and just sat down with 1k? Sure any idiot could buy-in to 2/5 and double up. Are we really going to be that naive though and generalize all LLSNL villains? You will get killed.

Either way, we can agree to disagree. Very good points all around.

Ok, so you now only have about $135 behind now. You have put $105 into the pot and still have no idea what he may have, exactly where we didn't want to be. You have to fold and top up your stack. On to the next hand.

Just curious, what was the outcome? Did he show?

I don't know where you play, but most of my room's $2/5 player pool ranks on a scale from break-even to mouth-breather, with a significant emphasis on mouth-breather.

Dude came from a $1/2 must-move, so I'm not automatically considering him a good player just because he's got two racks in front of him.

I think we can agree to disagree. I can see the benefit of checking back the turn to keep more bluffs in his range. However, my experience is most LLSNL players don't bluff enough so I want to get value from his draws now before they brick out.

I think this is very close between value-barreling turn and checking behind with intention to call river lead or bet river if checked to.

Without knowing V's tendencies, I don't think those in either camp should be very authoritative.

SCALDING HOT TAEK