I'm a 1-2 live player who cleared 12K over 600 hours in 2015. Unfortunately, I was up about 13.5K in late October before the cards turned against me, yes, but I'm also quite certain that over December, my only net losing month, my bad luck got to me and bad play exacerbated my losses. I haven't played for about 10 days because the last time I played I felt lost at the table.

My New Year's resolution is to invest more into my game than simply playing. First, I had it in my head that I would bite the bullet (I'm so stingy with money away from the table that that's actually how it feels) and sign up for Crush Live Poker and all of its offerings. I think Bart Hanson's the best and I've been following him since he and David Tuchman originally hosted Live at the Bike. I feel like he and Roy Cooke are about the only good reasons to read Card Player, etc.

That would be a $300 investment for the year.
Podcasts only, I believe, would be $13 a month.

Then there's the current live at the bike, with new content four nights a week for $10 a month. Now, I know that Bart's operation is more in depth, but back when it was him and Tuchman, just listening to the commentary sharpened my poker mind immeasurably. I wouldn't be a profitable 1-2 player (in Oklahoma brick and mortar casinos, for the record) had Dave and Bart not furthered my education.

I've watched the available live stream repeat with Limon and Nicole Jurgens on the commentary and the constant commentary, especially from Limon, I think will be very helpful (and significantly less expensive than Crush Live Poker).

Further, the only drawback on Bart, I think, is the heaviness of his content. It's sort of like reading a great book that's really is great, yet not a page turner. Live at the Bike may be a little more low brow, but maybe easier to consume?

Anyway, I'm looking for advice.

My goal is to better my game, plain and simple, and maybe, maybe, maybe, become a 2-5 player. If I could have 2-5 success at 2/3 the rate of my 1-2 success, I feel the additional income could be — in the not large life I lead — life changing.

So, advice please. Also, are there any other live poker training operations I should be looking at. Thanks for your help.

To be honest...if your roll is 12k and you've won that 12k...you absolutely, positively, should be playing 2/5. 2/5, IMO, plays easier and more straight forward than my casinos crazy 2/2 game.

Take a shot at 2/5 and see how you do. Wtf you waiting on?

I have it, but I co-mingle my money. It's income more than bankroll. And right now, especially given my recent downswing, I just don't have the stomach to drop two buy ins at the 2-5 table. Heck, right now, I'm sitting out the 1-2 waiting to get my mind right. If I just say I'm a life nit, does that make it make sense.

If you play 600 hours again this year and CLP helps you win just $1 more per hour (which I think is a completely reasonable assumption), then you will pay for it in 6 months. In fact, if they have a year long discount upfront, I would jump on that if you know for sure you will use it and play the entire year.

As for your progression, many players achieve $30+ hourly at 1/2 (depending on location and dynamics of course), so increasing your win rate is certainly possible.

GL

Your winrate is about 10BB/hr. You're maxed out at 1/2 for all practical purposes. Time to move up to 2/5. You can certainly invest more in training if you want, but I suspect will have little effect on your earnings at 1/2.

Agree on moving up. Also look into live coaching.

Get the full CLP access on a monthly basis and try it out. If it helps, well worth it. If not, easy to drop.

Your obviously not comfortable moving up at this point. Get the training, it couldn't hurt, and when you have a separate poker roll of about 20K, start taking shots at 2/5. Don't do it now if you feel pressured after a few losing sessions.

Honestly man if you are looking at paying for training, than this is something you are taking very serious. Playing professionaly, semi-professional at least.

If this is true, then you need to truly consider having a poker dedicated bankroll. That 12k you won should be reinvested into poker. Training, moving up to 2/5, etc. If you are just slowing pissing it away on rent, watches, shoes, expenditures, then okay. But if it's something you want to take serious you should dedicate a portion of this roll strictly for poker. Do not spend it on anything. Once you have a loss or win, you just put the rubber band around it until next time. Obviously at some point once you're well over-rolled you can start taking money from the pile as you are now a semi-pro/pro.

Until you dedicate a roll though, it's going to be hard to break out of that mentality.

You absolutely should be moving up to 2/5. Do what's uncomfortable. Take a shot .

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"

I disagree about moving up. You should only move up when you feel comfortable doing so and can confidently feel that you are one of the best at the table. The win rate is impressive but 600 hours isn't a ton of time. You could be crushing the game but you could also be a winning player experiencing a variance upswing. Especially given the impact that your fairly small downswing seems to have on you, moving up seems like a poor idea.

I don't get much except entertainment out of LATB to be honest. I wouldn't consider it training. CLP is a good resource though. Best resource is to make friends with grinders and discuss hands with them.

you really need to stay at 1/2 for now, just being honest.

also, when you say "the cards turned against me" do you mean you had a lot of suckouts and bad beats, or you just didn't really get dealt anything as of late? (there is nothing you can do to control bad beats, it's part of the game which is why we have big bankrolls to overcome them).

The point is a good professional player will never go to the casino hoping to "run good". I realize the majority of "pro's" all play in a similar manner (wait for value to stack the fish, etc.) but the really great winning pro's don't worry too much about the cards they worry more about how to play each villain in a way to capitalize on their tendencies. This means squeezing light to take down dead money, 3betting light, and sometimes tripple barrel jamming as a bluff when you know the tight pro will never go broke for 250+ bb's w/o the nuts.

Obviously I'm not suggesting to play like this from the get go but if you want to be a great player you need to separate yourself from the majority of "grinders" to really step ahead of the crowd. And the best way to do this is with private one on one coaching. Videos and LATB commentaries are good tools but it's extremely important to have a private coach to go over all of your hand histories with you which would be better than reading books and watching videos.

Keep posting your big hands in the forum, stay dedicated and keep working hard then in a couple of years you will be crushing the 5/10 and you will own all of the other pro's ; )

gl op

Well, the cards turned against me, as I internalized it for a $2,000 downswing, in the sense that I would go from absolutely card dead, lose one buy in over three hours, and just feel like I wasn't even at the table. I was hardly ever involved and when I was involved, I had to get out fast. Felt like I lost the minimum … OR, sessions where every time I raised with good cards and hit, I'd run into two pair; or every time I flopped a set, I ran into a flush; each time; maybe I'd drop two buy-ins, yet STILL, I thought, losing the minimum. I was very pleased with keeping my head.

From there I had two big sessions, won a grand, felt great.

Then, similar bad luck returned for the next three or four sessions AND for the first time all year, after like 150 sessions, I felt out of sorts at the table. I'm a scratch golfer and, all of a sudden, it's like I had no idea what was going on in my swing or where the ball was going. And that is why I have left the table for a bit to fill my head with poker and only return feeling much better prepared.

Thus, this training inquiry

Playing on LATB is the worlds best poker training AINC. There's a reason why most of the top grinders in los angeles come on the show a few times a year to brush up. Everyone who plays regularly on LATB gets much, MUCH better. Many pros have come out of the games (including the CLP crew).

Playing on the show exposes all your warts, you cant hide, you cant say the "cards turned on you" you cant embellish hand histories to a coach. You get to see, in the cold light of day, what was actually going on in a poker game compared to what you thought was going on. You also get to watch your general table demeanor/tells and those of players in your player pool.

Its like professional athletes watching tape. they dont ask about the tape or sign up for a service that describes the tape, they watch the fuqqing tape.

TBH, ive consumed more "poker training" than most people on the planet as I have been given (or have had access to) free memberships to nearly every training site. I will tell you, unequivocally, there is no non personalized poker coaching worth paying for. PERIOD. The blanket coaching you get at these sites is available for FREE in many places if you are not lazy and have an inquisitive mind. Blanket coaching is for lazy people who want their information aggregated and curated by someone else. These people are destined to LOSE.

PERSONALIZED coaching is completely different, it has MASSIVE value if you have a good coach AND a good student. Ive done tons of personalized coaching over the last decade and 100%, do not pass go, without a doubt the only way for to really work is to watch your student play. Information filtered through the students mind is compromised. Ive had students for months tell me hands and situations then watched them play ONCE on latb and said, "everything they were telling me was totally screwed up, they are clueless!"

I refuse to sit behind a player. I consider it douchey and rude, borderline unethical. Its also a semi-compromised way to learn how a student plays. If you really want to see how a student plays you need to hover above the table and see everyones cards, HOW THE HELL COULD YOU DO THAT??? lol.

Live at the Bike is a unique experience in the poker. People come from around the world to play on the show and have their play analyzed by myself and the other commentators. Those students who use the subscription well (utilizing chat, forums, and personal communication with commentators) get better faster than any students of any other poker training program BAR NONE.

And its FUN. Remember when poker was FUN?

What, in your opinion, makes for a good student?

Run it once is pretty good prolly the best training site out there but it's more online as opposed to live

This is the key and it's not specific to poker.



But for a good foundation for a game like poker, I'd recommend 3 textbooks. The rigorous math isn't too important but understanding the concepts is.

Intro macroeconomics
Intro microeconomics
Intro psychology

OP, save your money on all of that training stuff. You don't need subscriptions to this or that, nor do you need money for poker coaching (strange concept, "poker coaching" imo). Those are all a waste of money and cheap hustles. Once you have a solid understanding of the theoretical and mathematical fundamentals of the game, the rest is volume and familiarizing yourself with the many different situations so that they're second nature to you.

You said that your goal is improve your game. What you need to do is to get your feet wet at higher stakes, and put yourself out of your comfort zone and into unfamiliar territory. You need to play against tougher opponents who think at a higher level than the opponents you're used to.

Is 12k your life roll or just your bankroll? All this talk about moving up is great so long as you have the capital.

Bottom line for me is that live coaching is better than any book or training website.

That worked for me but everyone's is different and learns differently.

I felt the weekly one on one Skype calls did wonders for me and paid for themselves.

Having said that, finding the right coach is a task in itself.

one that actually wants to get better at poker, realizes its super hard work and it lasts a lifetime.

believe it or not many people go to a poker coach to "buy a cool poker bud". They basically pay you to listen to their bad beat stories and answer their texts.

the same thing happens in the psychiatry/psychology world.

That's really ****ing sad. It's cheaper and way more fun to get a girlfriend who is a poker enthusiast. In addition, make friends at your local card room with players who are clearly better than you. Hang out with them and talk poker. Ask them about hands you played and listen to their feedback.

I disagree with the comparison to psychologists (psychiatrist is the doctor who works at the insane asylum and prescribes medication, btw). There are some legitimate problems that a trained psychologist can help a person with (phobias, for example).

If you truly believe you have leaks in your game getting a good coach makes perfect sense.

Buddies will only help you so far, a good coach to me is a way better investment.

Limon - I for instance enjoy your LATB show a lot, I truly believe it's the best live cash game to watch and everyone can learn from it but don't care for the quality of the commentary for the most part. If you remove the alcohol and add someone who can do a good job explaining what's going on, then your show would have more to offer to me.

Just my opinion and hopefully no offense is taken.

This makes sense and is useful only up to a point. A coach will review your hand histories and check your weak spots (do you check turns a lot, do you bet/fold too many rivers, etc.), but once you learn to do that on your own, the coach outlives his usefulness to the client. Think of it like a physical trainer who teaches you proper form on exercises and provides training programming methods. Once you learn that stuff, you don't need him any more.

In 2013 I realized my river play needed a lot of work, especially in deep stack situations, so I spent a huge amount of time devoting my sessions to improving how I played rivers and thought about every major river decision I had to make after every session. Lately I've noticed leaks in how I play premium hands preflop and OTF (****ing queens... lol). I didn't need a coach to point these things out.

With moderate experience and time invested in any given task, anybody can learn to self-analyze and self-improve their own weaknesses in said task.

Sure I agree with you. You could compare poker to golf in a way...anyone can play it without taking lessons and be good. Some people may need to invest in gadgets, other can improve by watching videos, some do group clinics and some do private lessons.

None of the options above have to last forever, you use gadgets until they fix the problem and you may stop private lessons once you fix that slice.

Having said that poker generates profit while, for the most part golf generates entertainment and therefore, it may make sense for some people to have weekly, bi-weekly or even monthly calls with their mentors.

I personally tried everything but became profitable after I took on skype coaching. That fit my learning style. I know some players who are much more profitable than me who learned everything on their own and developed their own style.

of course there are many amazing psychologists/psychiatrists who want to help clients and send them on if there is no progress there are also many who have a cash cow and they dont rock the boat. everyone knows of famous people who go to the same psychiatrist for decades and pay top dollar.