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TP facing min c/r on the river

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02-13-2014 , 06:33 PM

n0npareil

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 127

1/2
Hero (400): Young Tag. Been winning pots without showdown.
V1 (200): bad nitty old gentleman. Just lost his stack chasing a k high flush in a 3 way all in pot. Rebuys for 200. Plays fit or fold.
V2 (covers): loose passive older gent who overplays tp hands. Plays fit or fold.

Hero has T9o in HJ
Preflop: V2 limps, V1 limps, Hero raises to 16, both Vs call.

Flop (45): 856hh
Checks to hero to cbets 25
V2 folds, V1 tank calls

Turn (95): 2c

V1 checks, hero checks

Putting v on a range of 8x, or pair + sd like 77, 76. I dont think he will fold if i bet.

River (95): 10d

V1 checks, hero bets 30, V1 tanks then c/r to 60.

What is villains range here?

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02-13-2014 , 07:50 PM

InTheDark

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,036

Start PF. I've got a little nit in me and if I limp UTG123 THEN call a raise to 16 OOP there aren't many hands I hold. I'm folding pairs 88 or 99 and down. I'm folding AQo and AJs. What's that leave?

AK if I limped with it. Maybe AQs. Maybe TT or 99. That's about it.

Fit or fold on flop leaves me holding 99 or TT and just maybe AhKh or AhQh.

So...call the river. TT - one way, 99 - three ways, 2 maybe bluffs.

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02-13-2014 , 08:37 PM

QuadJ

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 6,292

This hand is played very strangely for a tight passive fit/fold type. The check turn/check river followed by a min raise is basically contradictory. Villain is doing something bad here, but the min raise is generally very strong. I think TT and ThXh with a big kicker are make up most of his range. However, if villain will over play 98/99 and has min raised river previously or has shown some spazz bluffs, a call isn't terrible because pot odds are great. Expect to lose way more then win.

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02-13-2014 , 08:41 PM

River G

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 453

Feels like 10x of hearts, weigted towards K10-A10, or a rivered 2 pair. Don't think V is min check raising as a bluff, he wants a call. My guess is if he had 2 pair+ on the flop he'd do his check raise there to get rid of heart and straight draws.

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02-14-2014 , 12:03 AM

Snowball2

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Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 8,640

Quote:

Originally Posted by n0npareil

You call yourself tight here, and you opened T9o to 16?
You call V1 nitty, yet he just chased all in with a king high flush draw?

Check the river, or bet/fold. as described, he 1000% has you beat. You don't even have the best kicker to go with your T, what are you trying to get value from?
You are literally only beating a bluff here, and i don't think he's bluffing.

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02-14-2014 , 12:08 AM

Duke0424

self-banned

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 13,362

Fold pre. I'm fine with isolating one limper with this but only from CO or BTN. I don't think this Iso is profitable.

Don't cbet this flop. It hits a limp/call range pretty hard and you're very very unlikely to get both players to fold.

River is a fold. I don't see passive old guys c/r bluffing their missed draws. If he wanted to bluff, he'd have led river after you checked back the flop

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02-14-2014 , 12:12 AM

iraisetoomuch

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 37,871

Quote:

Originally Posted by n0npareil

V1 (200): bad nitty old gentleman. Just lost his stack chasing a k high flush in a 3 way all in pot. Rebuys for 200. Plays fit or fold.

I'd say that he is check tank/min raising the river here.
As a bluff.
Never.

As for his range, it's always TP/OP/set.

And yes, nitty old men will play sets this way as they want to see a 'safeish' river card before putting more money in. They don't want that heart to roll off then they just don't know what to do.

I'd fold pretty happily here.

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02-14-2014 , 12:15 AM

n0npareil

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 127

Your right, i was playing more of a Lag game. Dont we factor in that he may be on tilt after losing the big pot. Villain played 3 hands in the last 3 hrs.

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02-14-2014 , 12:17 AM

DrChesspain

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by n0npareil

What is villains range here?

Whatever he has is better than what you have.

Sent from my BNTV400 using 2+2 Forums

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02-14-2014 , 12:21 AM

#10

Duke0424

self-banned

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 13,362

Quote:

Originally Posted by n0npareil

Your right, i was playing more of a Lag game. Dont we factor in that he may be on tilt after losing the big pot. Villain played 3 hands in the last 3 hrs.

People on tilt do their spew way before the river

Sent from my SCH-I545 using 2+2 Forums

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02-14-2014 , 12:22 AM

#11

Snowball2

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Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 8,640

Quote:

Originally Posted by n0npareil

Your right, i was playing more of a Lag game. Dont we factor in that he may be on tilt after losing the big pot. Villain played 3 hands in the last 3 hrs.

Hes not on tilt if hes playing 1 hand/hour
Not all check raises are bluffs. This is not a bluff here.

I agree with iraisetoo much, OP/Tp, maybe a set but strongly leaning towards tt/jj as omc nits limp call with those.

Results?

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02-14-2014 , 09:05 AM

#12

QuadJ

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Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 6,292

Quote:

Originally Posted by n0npareil

Your right, i was playing more of a Lag game. Dont we factor in that he may be on tilt after losing the big pot. Villain played 3 hands in the last 3 hrs.

Tilt is possible, but the river check/min raise is a tilt move roughly never. If he was tilting he would have made a move earlier in hand or bet into you big on river or check/raised huge.

If villain shows up here with a hand you beat, the most likely explanation is that he read the board wrong even if he says otherwise.

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02-14-2014 , 12:40 PM

#13

n0npareil

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 127

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowball2

He had 22

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