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Tough Live NL 1/2 Hand Tough Live NL 1/2 Hand

09-07-2014 , 06:54 PM
Here's a hand that I encountered. Will reveal the outcome later. My goal was to get some small value bets from AK not play for stacks which is what ended up happening.

Two questions:
How good is my hand on the river based on the way things played out?
Was my bet sizing too large? At that table a $12 bet routinely gets 2-3 callers for multi-way pots so I raised to $20.

    Full Tilt, $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #30320771

    Hero (UTG+1): $200 (100 bb)
    UTG+2: $200 (100 bb)
    MP1: $200 (100 bb)
    MP2: $200 (100 bb)
    MP3: $200 (100 bb)
    CO: $200 (100 bb)
    BTN: $200 (100 bb)
    SB: $200 (100 bb)
    BB: $200 (100 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A K
    Hero raises to $20, 4 folds, CO calls $20, 3 folds

    Flop: ($43) T 7 A (2 players)
    Hero bets $20, CO calls $20

    Turn: ($83) Q (2 players)
    Hero bets $30, CO calls $30

    River: ($143) K (2 players)
    Hero bets $50, CO is all-in,
    Hero ???

    Spoiler:
    Results: $193 pot
    Final Board: T 7 A Q K
    Hero showed A K



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    Tough Live NL 1/2 Hand Quote
    09-07-2014 , 07:58 PM
    Bet a little bigger each street so that river is a shove. As played, obviously calling $80 more on river with top 2.
    Tough Live NL 1/2 Hand Quote
    09-07-2014 , 08:00 PM
    When you're trying to not bloat a pot with TPTK, checking either the flop or turn instead of betting works best. With two streets, you can make decent sized bets. When betting 3 streets, you end up getting caught up in making small bets which encourages people to take a run at you. On a dry flop like this, checking the flop also convinces people you don't have TP and are more likely to call you down with worse.

    Most 1/2 players won't raise without the near nuts on the river. You don't have that, so I'd fold.
    Tough Live NL 1/2 Hand Quote
    09-07-2014 , 08:27 PM
    I like the preflop size. I usually raise more with better hands and at 1/2 I doubt you have to worry about getting exploited.

    I would bet 35 or 40 on the flop. If villain has an Ace he's calling. More on the turn. Maybe 80 to set up a river shove. If he has a weaker ace he will most likely be committed and call it off.

    As played, I would fold. It's unlikely he's turning a worse hand into a bluff. Any other 2 pair even set would just call. Only a straight is raising you here.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using 2+2 Forums
    Tough Live NL 1/2 Hand Quote
    09-07-2014 , 08:29 PM
    You didn't wanna play for stacks? This isn't a live hand of poker.
    Tough Live NL 1/2 Hand Quote
    09-07-2014 , 09:07 PM
    Do you really think a Jack could have made it to the river?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bartie
    I like the preflop size. I usually raise more with better hands and at 1/2 I doubt you have to worry about getting exploited.

    I would bet 35 or 40 on the flop. If villain has an Ace he's calling. More on the turn. Maybe 80 to set up a river shove. If he has a weaker ace he will most likely be committed and call it off.

    As played, I would fold. It's unlikely he's turning a worse hand into a bluff. Any other 2 pair even set would just call. Only a straight is raising you here.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using 2+2 Forums
    Tough Live NL 1/2 Hand Quote
    09-07-2014 , 09:20 PM
    Any reads on the player and/or do you think he views you as tight or loose? Against a lot of loose passives, since they're the most common players at llsnl, I would bet 30-35/70-75/check-call.

    Last edited by Aces&Kings; 09-07-2014 at 09:33 PM.
    Tough Live NL 1/2 Hand Quote
    09-07-2014 , 11:49 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ShellPoker
    Do you really think a Jack could have made it to the river?
    AJ/QJ/KJ/JT/JJ all make it to the river.

    These pots are some of the most frustrating to play in LLSNL. Because of the large preflop raise sizes, unless you're 150BB deep, you end up with these weird awkward river stacks.

    You gave us no reads on V. Typical pot control line is to check/evaluate the turn. Let V take the lead in the hand and decide if he wants to see a cheap showdown or play for stacks. However your line is fine against some of the mega calling stations encountered at LLSNL.

    You need to be good like 25% of the time to call river. You aren't good that often. Fold.
    Tough Live NL 1/2 Hand Quote
    09-08-2014 , 09:15 PM
    I didn't list the villain good point. I am interested to hear how your actions change depending on which of these following interesting characters you face (and I'v encountered live).

    Villain #1:
    Mixed italian blue collar dressed, fat, looks like he needs a shave. He likes to see flops and throws his chips in aggressively when he bets. Seemed to take down a few small pots without showing cards.

    Villain #2:
    Indian college kid. Looks like he tripled up in about 45 minutes. Looks like he plays pretty solid TAG and appears to be very confident of his game.

    Villain #3:
    Thuggishly dressed black guy. It is possible he learned the game from the streets and is really tricky. Seems to have difficulty keeping his chip stack topped off. Gives you a tilted squint like he's on to your bluff before shoving all-in.

    Villain #4:
    Asian college kid (or unemployed), with shades on and baseball cap hip-hop style with the flat bill. Looks like (but isn't) Joseph Cheong. Has a decent chip stack.

    Villain #5:
    White guy with reflective shades. Looks like a complete moron since you can probably see his hole cards from the reflection. Quiet demeanor and leans back in his chair, sort of resembles Elky. Very laggy, and have seen him make bold raises pushing in half stack of chips (50bb) in a steady and silent manner to take down several pots. Looks like he is extremely confident. Did go all-in and double up with a straight flush draw.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Koss
    AJ/QJ/KJ/JT/JJ all make it to the river.

    These pots are some of the most frustrating to play in LLSNL. Because of the large preflop raise sizes, unless you're 150BB deep, you end up with these weird awkward river stacks.

    You gave us no reads on V. Typical pot control line is to check/evaluate the turn. Let V take the lead in the hand and decide if he wants to see a cheap showdown or play for stacks. However your line is fine against some of the mega calling stations encountered at LLSNL.

    You need to be good like 25% of the time to call river. You aren't good that often. Fold.

    Last edited by ShellPoker; 09-08-2014 at 09:25 PM.
    Tough Live NL 1/2 Hand Quote
    09-08-2014 , 11:17 PM
    You're heads up so you don't need to list that much info about villains. You only need the pertinent info about the villain you're facing. Read Koss' explanation. He does a good job of summing it up quickly. Two pair isn't that strong on the river unfortunately. Check the flop to control the pot and make your decision to raise on the turn.
    Tough Live NL 1/2 Hand Quote
    09-09-2014 , 04:35 PM
    you are a disaster.

    10x pre, 1/3 of pot on the flop, dear god sir.

    $30 on the turn... into a $90 pot...

    I dont understand why people sit down at a 1-2 table and think "look at these fish betting x7" and then come to the conclusion that to outplay them they should bet 10x. And then one day you realize that you are one of the fish.
    Tough Live NL 1/2 Hand Quote
    09-09-2014 , 04:41 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by venice10
    When you're trying to not bloat a pot with TPTK, checking either the flop or turn instead of betting works best. With two streets, you can make decent sized bets. When betting 3 streets, you end up getting caught up in making small bets which encourages people to take a run at you. On a dry flop like this, checking the flop also convinces people you don't have TP and are more likely to call you down with worse.

    Most 1/2 players won't raise without the near nuts on the river. You don't have that, so I'd fold.
    Personally I'm a much bigger fan of bet flop bet turn check river, and if they bet then consider a call with TPTK depending on situation rather then bet flop check turn and bet river. Obvi a lot of it has to do with position and board texture and there are a few times (on super dry boards in position) where i like a turn check with TPTK but honestly I suggest just avoiding that line and doing bet bet check/call or check/fold with TPTK unless your sure you can read the situation well. Just a general guideline I use
    Tough Live NL 1/2 Hand Quote
    09-09-2014 , 04:48 PM
    I think he has the J here like almost every time unless hes a total spewtard. Even with the fantastic pot odds this is a fold imo.
    Tough Live NL 1/2 Hand Quote
    09-09-2014 , 06:11 PM
    You have raised big pre with AK got the heads up result you was after then it seems like you got scared when you hit your ace.

    I understand the 10x pre flop because some games it is the only way to limit callers. When I put in a continuation bet on the flop id be looking to bet about 2/3 pot in most circumstances and something similar on the turn. So I'd be looking at 20 pre 32 post 75 turn.

    As played on the river the majority of players will only raise if they are confident that their hand is the best or they don't think they can win the hand (having no showdown value) but are confident you cant call a raise. Two pairs, sets and even top pair would rarely raise as they have SDV and can't be over confident with a one card straight. The texture of the board it would take a brave man to try and bet you off it without the goods. So unless you have a reason to think otherwise your hand is rarely good here.

    Jacks could easily make the river especially because your post flop bets were small.
    Tough Live NL 1/2 Hand Quote
    09-09-2014 , 11:55 PM
    Missed that there was 4 to a straight in my first reply. Agree that Jx makes a large (probably all) of villain's range when he raises the river. I'd fold on the river.

    Bet sizing through out the hand needs work.
    Tough Live NL 1/2 Hand Quote

          
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