Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Tough Fold? Standard Fold? Raise? Call? 1-2 Tough Fold? Standard Fold? Raise? Call? 1-2

04-05-2015 , 09:05 PM
Hero 6 hrs into session,card dead, playing super tight. Villain is a competent player, is on semi tilt from me rivering him on a flush hand about 10 hands previously(he gave me great drawing odds in my defense)When he's playing his "A" game, he's a good TAG...Has shown bluffs and some light 3 betting pre Hero Stack= 265 Villain= 145

Hero in BB with Kh7h. Villain is in MP. Limped 7 ways to me. Check
Flop: Kd7d4h($14)
SB checks, Hero bets $15. Villain and Button call
Turn: 4c ($59)
Hero bets $45 and Villain tank calls
River: Ad ($149)
Hero checks, Villain bets all in last 80ish...Hero??
Tough Fold? Standard Fold? Raise? Call? 1-2 Quote
04-05-2015 , 09:17 PM
Pretty easy fold, imo. Board is 3-flushed and paired, so you're counterfeited by any ace, and V wants revenge, so prob is drawing too much earlier in the hand.

NH; WP (assuming that you folded)
Tough Fold? Standard Fold? Raise? Call? 1-2 Quote
04-05-2015 , 09:32 PM
I think this qualifies as a tough fold. It's a borderline situation, and I could definitely talk myself into a call some % of the time.

Problem is that I think we can rule out the possibility of him calling the turn in the hopes of bluffing the river. So when he calls on the turn, I think we can narrow his holdings down to decent kings (KQ-K10, I don't think he has any combos of AK in there if he's playing TAG and is a little tilted) and diamond draws. He shouldn't have any 4s in his hand unless he has quads or 4xdd. Maybe, maybe he has a combo of 56 that isn't also diamonds. He shouldn't be passively calling flop and turn with the inferior draw, but maybe he goes into passive-chaser mode once he's tilted.

We make money on the river from the Kx hands and from his bluffs with the busted straight draw. We have to figure that he puts us on at least Kx as well. How often do we think he's betting his Kx hand, trying to get us to fold rather than chopping with him? It's villain-dependent, but can't be 100%.

I don't love folding to a ~1/2PSB river shove. But I'm having a lot of trouble fitting this line (call flop, call turn, bet river once the draw comes in) to almost any hands that we beat.
Tough Fold? Standard Fold? Raise? Call? 1-2 Quote
04-05-2015 , 09:53 PM
Medium difficult fold. You're calling 80 for a chance to win 70 a decent number of times, he has all flushes in his range, he can have a 4 sometimes (maybe?), and I doubt he has 65 here..
Tough Fold? Standard Fold? Raise? Call? 1-2 Quote
04-05-2015 , 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sierradave
I think this qualifies as a tough fold. It's a borderline situation, and I could definitely talk myself into a call some % of the time.

Problem is that I think we can rule out the possibility of him calling the turn in the hopes of bluffing the river. So when he calls on the turn, I think we can narrow his holdings down to decent kings (KQ-K10, I don't think he has any combos of AK in there if he's playing TAG and is a little tilted) and diamond draws. He shouldn't have any 4s in his hand unless he has quads or 4xdd. Maybe, maybe he has a combo of 56 that isn't also diamonds. He shouldn't be passively calling flop and turn with the inferior draw, but maybe he goes into passive-chaser mode once he's tilted.

We make money on the river from the Kx hands and from his bluffs with the busted straight draw. We have to figure that he puts us on at least Kx as well. How often do we think he's betting his Kx hand, trying to get us to fold rather than chopping with him? It's villain-dependent, but can't be 100%.

I don't love folding to a ~1/2PSB river shove. But I'm having a lot of trouble fitting this line (call flop, call turn, bet river once the draw comes in) to almost any hands that we beat.
This sums up the situation pretty well IMO.
Tough Fold? Standard Fold? Raise? Call? 1-2 Quote
04-06-2015 , 05:14 AM
If you're going to c/c a river it should be a c/snap-call because you're inducing a bluff. Besides letting Vs bluff missed draws, you're oop river options should be just 1) bet if you're ahead 2) c/f if you're behind. Check/eval is a poor river move.
Tough Fold? Standard Fold? Raise? Call? 1-2 Quote
04-06-2015 , 06:54 AM
Check the turn. Only draws are obvious ones that you should never pay off if they hit on the river. Villain may bet with a wide range that includes even 66 after you attempted your "one and done c-bet". He may bet a King. He may bet a naked flush draw. Your read says he's 'hunting' you, I'd expect him to bet alot here.

Then raise all-in.

If it checks through, you have a very easy check/call, check/fold, or bet/fold based on the card that comes
Tough Fold? Standard Fold? Raise? Call? 1-2 Quote
04-06-2015 , 07:19 AM
It would be nice to know B stack size. Seeing stacks as they are with V I'm not sure why Hero 'backs' off on Turn bet (less than the PSB on Flop) and just forces B to gii OTT or fold. Obv with B still in there this may not have been prudent, but I don't want to give V an opportunity to play perfectly OTR with such a short stack .. force the issue now or perhaps c/c this Turn for pot control. LIMPED POTS OOP can be stack wreckers!!

This is one of those hands where I may want to get into the side pot OTT with B (if possible) since V may be chasing us regardless. I don't want to give B 3.33 to 1 to call OTT either. Sure, we get nailed by 4x (limited though due to large Flop bet), but don't we make out against Kx hands OTT in the long run by continuing to press the issue? The River (especially this one) can kill any chips we might have got from B OTT with a larger bet by 'forcing' a fold or losing after giving a great price to stay in the hand .. me no like.

This may be a bit 'results' orientated but I don't want to go the 'middle of the road' OTT OOP in a limped pot. I want to either slam it again with PSB (or more) or do some pot control against what will be a 'bad' stack size for the River. The OOP part is what I am looking at here. There's no use in allowing our opponent to play perfect OTR for such a small stack size.

PF .. fine, but certainly a potential raising hand with so much dead money. Your image?
Flop .. good spot to fire PSB or go for a c/r at the 'right' table .. probably betting out since we are much more likely to hit the bottom of the board than the top from a blind.

Turn .. bet more > c/r (if B folds) > bet AP > c/c (if B flats) ... pretty ugly spot if B comes along (flat or raise) and that's why I lean towards continuing so I can pretty much b/f to B or just force the action from V OTT.

River .. AP I think I fold here and make a comment about hitting the Ace trying to see his cards. V will not be satisfied with this 'small' pot and probably continue to play the fringe of his range while trying to chase down 'his' chips in my stack. GL

Last edited by answer20; 04-06-2015 at 07:26 AM.
Tough Fold? Standard Fold? Raise? Call? 1-2 Quote
04-06-2015 , 01:12 PM
Slightly difficult fold, but I fold. Can't really beat anything except air (and maybe a K), and I doubt he just calls with that on turn.
Tough Fold? Standard Fold? Raise? Call? 1-2 Quote
04-07-2015 , 11:33 AM
Thanks for all the feedback. I've read it all like 3x. I play full time and all the input is invaluable, thanks again. Sooooooo, the Ad is one of the worst cards I could see. He knows this and he also knows that I know this. When he shoved I went into the tank, actually had clock called on me lol I finally fold and he emphatically slams 5x6x for the bluff and exclaims "now were even" GG nice hand on to the next one
Tough Fold? Standard Fold? Raise? Call? 1-2 Quote
04-07-2015 , 04:08 PM
I'd fold here. You beat Kx and nothing else. Too many FD's and A's in his range here.
Tough Fold? Standard Fold? Raise? Call? 1-2 Quote
04-07-2015 , 06:02 PM
Don't feel bad. That's basically the only bluff in his range. Kx would prob check to realize SDV, and his range is full of stuff that beats you. Good fold, even vs. a V this tilty.
Tough Fold? Standard Fold? Raise? Call? 1-2 Quote

      
m