We’re playing 5 handed, Hero is on the button with JsJc. There are two limpers, hero raises to 5 bb. Folds to villain BB who 3-bets to 18bb. Folds to hero who flat calls.

Flop comes As9h4h
Villain checks
Hero checks

Turn is Jd
Villain bets 20bb
Hero raises 60bb
Villain jams for 120bb more
Hero ??

Is this always a call or do you fold the second nuts sometimes?

Yeah this is always a call. Don't waste too much thought on this hand. If you get stacked, it's just a cooler.

Welcome to the forum, OP. Please don't include results in your post, or for at least 24 hours thereafter. It biases responses. I edited them out.

Is this a live hand? If so, I wouldn't be worrying about GTO at this level, but would be playing max exploit. Also, reads are a must. That said, I'm basically never folding second set in a 3-bet pot. Sure, his going crazy after checking the A-high flop sets off some alarm bells, but his range isn't AA and AA only. Even if you just add AhJh-AhKh, you have 41% equity and you only need just over 30% to call. Only if this is the nitiest of nits who never 3-bets pre without AA would this be a fold AP.

GTO would call the turn very often. Maybe like 85% call.

As played it's never folding.

Much closer to 50%.

I assume you posted because V has AA (didn't see result before you edited), so obv. fold.


More realistically what do you think his 3bet range looks like ... is he raising a lot because you opened the BTN?
Robot 100bb BB vs. BTN is 3betting a _lot_, way more than most humans. Including 50% of 54s,A4s and almost 100% of T9s,A5s,AJs+. At 200bb it goes down but is still doing A2s/K2s/K3s that would be unexpected vs. low stakes humans.

At 100bb (with robot sizes, BTN open vs. BB 3bet) JJ is 4bet near 100%. At 200bb with an ante, it's call almost 50% without an ante it's a call 100%. But at 200bb BTN is "4bet bluffing" K8s and A3s/A2s near 100%.
The limps and sizes make it a little confusing as to which to go with.


On turn I understand you have the 2nd nuts, but why are you raising ... what do you think/want to happen? Villain checks on A high flop and then leads out half pot on J turn ... do you think he'll call KK on turn?
Do you think he'll often check AK/AQ/AJ on flop?
Do you think he has 99, AJ or even AK for value?
Do you have AA or AK in your range?
What other hands are you raising here?
Saying GTO only calls turn 50% is a bit misleading because I assume roughly 0% of the people I'd play against have a range that looks like what GTO has on check flop + bet turn.

FWIW I probably call turn against most people just because I don't want them folding and they checked an A high flop (and we checked behind) and nothing has changed. Unless I think they'll often assume I have a FD and will never believe I have value.


Against a bunch of people you can't do anything but call, because they might have "trapped" with AK/AQ and then value shoved it. Others will have a bunch of random stuff.
Others will have AA 100% of the time with this line.
Checking A high flops and then wanting to put in 10x pot in on blank turns ... is often very strong, but it's not like we have AQ and we would have happily stacked off if V had just bet 25% of pot on flop and we called.

To be clear, that's all 3 combos. of them ... so he has to plan on x/r flop with all three combos. 100% and then bet/shove turn with them. Drop a combo. and it's close to even.
We really want V to be trapping AK, and then shoving turn with a decent amount of it.

ProPokerTools Odds Oracle Results (2.3 Professional)
Holdem, Generic syntax
Board - As9h4hJd
PLAYER_1 JsJc
PLAYER_2 AA,AhJh,AhKh
220 trials (exhaustive)


All-in Equity

	Equity %	Wins Hi %	Ties Hi %	Wins Hi Count	Ties Hi Count
JsJc	32.7273%	32.7273%	0.0000%	72	0
AA,AhJh,AhKh	67.2727%	67.2727%	0.0000%	148	0

ProPokerTools Odds Oracle Results (2.3 Professional)
Holdem, Generic syntax
Board - As9h4hJd
PLAYER_1 JsJc
PLAYER_2 AA,AhJh,AhQh,AhKh
264 trials (exhaustive)


All-in Equity

	Equity %	Wins Hi %	Ties Hi %	Wins Hi Count	Ties Hi Count
JsJc	40.9091%	40.9091%	0.0000%	108	0
AA,AhJh,AhQh,AhKh	59.0909%	59.0909%	0.0000%	156	0

This 100%. But, basically we are never folding this.

I agree it was a really bad raise on the turn, he told me it was obvious I had pocket Jacks with the line I took. One thing to note about this player though is that I’ve seen him 3-bet with 99 on the big blind and i’ve seen him 3-bet with Ace low kicker suited hands so I thought that that a raise may be good to induce a jam in case he had any of those hands and I could get the money in if he’s on a draw. I also thought with the raise I could represent a semi-bluff (villain and I have a history of bluffing each other) and induce a jam. It definitely was a poor raise but I had my reasons for it at the time.

My live read told me it was AA and I wanted to fold at first but I tanked for a minute and realized there were way too many combos he could be jamming with that i’m ahead of so i made the call. It was a sick spot where my gut told me one thing and my thought process told me another.

This isn’t a bad raise on the turn. You played the hand absolutely fine.

You have seen the guy 3bet 99 before; and some guys show up with AK here. you absolutely can never fold turn. There’s no question about it.

LOL at live read telling you it was AA. So ridiculous, come on dude. The fact you are even questioning this hand is just results oriented thinking, Spend your time in more valuable ways thinking about how to plug some of the leaks that actually impact your win-rate.

When I said reads I meant more like the vital info that he could be as wide as 99 and AXs and that you two have a history of bluffing each other. This shows that his range is definitely wiser than AA and you should never fold.

This is not a standard BB vs BTN spot; hero on the button has isolation-raised versus two idiot limpers. In the ranges I use, BTN has a 43% opening range but a 7.5% iso-ing range versus two limpers, and BB's three-betting range versus the iso should be a lot more snug than against a BTN open.

(BB's three-betting range should be all the more snug because they are incentivized to keep the limpers in the pot, because even in worst position you make more money three or four ways against one or two idiots and a presumed good player than you do heads-up against the good player.)

I never said it was bad, so you can't agree.

I asked why you did it. Him having 99 and a bunch of suited Ah*h is a pretty good reason.
You can't just go back and unsee those 99 3bets just because he has AA this time.
And if he's doing it with Ah5h he's def. doing it with AK and can check flop sometimes because he thinks you'll bluff at it, hard to read if he'll just call to your turn raise or not ... but we can't expect a 3bet everytime he bets turn.

Also, yeh, of course he's going to think you have JJ ... that's your obvious value hand he has crushed.


A lot depends on any reads, and what's been happening, but as a general rule at a .25/.50 game (or random live 1-2 casino game) I'm going to raise two limpers on the BTN with significantly more than 7.5% of hands.
People aren't GTO limping.

Id put the odds of the OP being a troll post at 95%. The posts you quote dont do much to change my mind anywhere but closer to 99%. Creates an account to ask if he should call off for barely anything with the second nuts.