Context: 5 handed 1-3 game with 120BB. Villain seems like as a tight and more passive as he limp calls a majority of the time and doesn't really raise and/or bet much.

I open to 10 UTG with AJ suited. Villain calls on the button.

Pot: about $20
Flop comes AQ9. My suit is diamonds
I bet 18 villain calls.

Pot: about $55
Turn is 4.
I bet 75 and villain calls (I unfortunately don't remember the exact bets or cards but I remember it was a draw heavy board).

Pot: about $200
River I believe is an 8.
I check and villain bets $125, leaving about the same behind. This is pretty much always a fold, right?

I usually don't post hands that seem as straightforward as this but I am in a downswing and have added to it by making bad plays. This hand seems like I played well except for the turn bet size. Seems like a pot size bet would have been just fine. Correct me if I am wrong.

What suits are yours?

Why did you bet so big on flop + turn? That’s an overbet on the turn. Really ambitious when OOP against a guy who has seemed somewhere between tight and semi-loose passive.

AP his range to get to the river will be much stronger thanks to those big bets. And the open ender comes in. I’d fold.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m okay with putting a decent sized bet on the turn in. But like 70% pot. Not an overbet. Our hand isn’t good enough to overbet


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Suited Diamonds.... Thanks for the reply

Probably the best version to bet big twice with. Don’t block straight draws with a backdoor flush draw that he might want to peel flop with.


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All of this. And if called the second time, I'm looking for a cheap showdown unimproved.

I edited your OP to help folks track the pot sizes, etc. Please post in a format something like this, so people don't have to puzzle out the hand. Also, generally speaking, don't post results for at least 24 hours after your OP. They were in this one, though it's not that big a deal on a line-check post, but in your other post you posted them separately 20 minutes after your OP. Way too soon.

I open to $15 unless $10 is regularly going HU.

I bet $8 on the flop.

AP (as played; you asked in another thread what this means), I bet $40 ott. Then again, I rarely use overbets.

I would bet-fold $70 otr. We can get called by worse hands that will check back. I'm not sure any worse hand is betting this river, especially with JT coming in. AP, fold.

I almost never play in shorthanded games but...

I'm fine with a small open preflop.

Why are we PSBing the flop against a tight player? If I'm betting I doubt I'm even going 1/2 PSB. The board is not very wet, there ain't a lot to protect against, he is going to have a hard time continuing very many streets with worse, and we shouldn't consider ourselves remotely committed in an SPR 18 pot. Against difficult players I would even check this flop a lot.

After bombing the pot and getting called I think I'd much rather check the turn than anything else. If we hadda bet small on the flop we could follow that up with another small bet on the turn (or even a check as I'm not convinced we're getting 3 streets from worse by betting). Bomb/bombing with TPmehK into a tight player with still significant stacks behind after opening preflop is a pretty good way to only get called down by better (unless we have a fantastic image).

I'm also check/folding the river, and probably would have even if the river didn't complete the most obvious draw (JT).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Turn bet is out of control

To everyone: it’s fine to opt for a large size on the flop because we can have basically every huge hand on this texture. And he really can’t. So we can put him in a difficult position straight away when he’s holding a weak TP or a gutshot or even a hand as strong as the AJ we have. Big size is fine when we’ve range + nut edge.

Overbetting turn can also be viable for that exact reason too. But clearly we need to be smart with what our range of hands is to do it with. I don’t think I’m making any sort of ground breaking content when I say it’s a bad idea to value bet a hand in a way where you can’t get called by worse. Unless opponent is a total station, he’s going to have a hard time hanging on with anything worse than top pair strong kicker given the nature of the board and our bet sizes.


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I am OK with pre (small for my games) and flop (could go smaller, but no biggie), but once a tight player calls the flop, I slow down. If I bet turn, it's half, and then river decide.

As played vs. tight passive, fold river.

I could see this applying with regards to the overall range we might have here. But with our actual holding we don't want worse Ax / gutshots / etc. to face a tough decision here (we want a call); the only exception would be AJ (we'd love a fold, although obviously way too small a part of his range to uniquely target). So I guess the more you're concerned with balance the more this might apply; but the more you're concerned with exploitative play (in this case getting paid off by worse for the appropriate amount over the appropriate amount of streets) the more it's meh.

GimoG

This is all flop-related. Having a large size on the flop is fine and this hand is fine to do it with. Opponent will have plenty of hands that feel compelled to call once like your KQ and A5 hands that passive live players love to call preflop raises with. We can exploit this with a large flop sizing. And if they’re folding these hands to a large flop sizing, we can just exploit them in a different way and start bombing air.

The turn is bad because our overall OB strategy is way too wide. AJ isn’t arguably not even a turn value bet as we block the main draw, to overbet it is spew


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Really the main thing OP needs to work on, judging from this HH, is to stop treating situations in a vacuum.

The range villain shows up with on the turn facing a $18 bet is far, far different than the range he shows up with vs a $6 bet. We need to understand that what happens on a prior street matters when making a decision on your current street.

Top pair good kicker is a “strong” hand. But is it really that strong when we put a raise in preflop, and a big bet on the flop, and still get action? Our relative hand strength isn’t very good here.

Also it’s really bad in general to overbet a hand for value on one street and then check fold the next, unless the card is particularly bad. In this case, the 8 is bad, but nowhere near bad enough for a hand that you’d value as an overbet on the turn to be put into a check fold bucket on the river. Don’t bet to see where you’re at. Bet for maximum EV, the information is a secondary benefit


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Maybe I've misinterpreted what you meant by "putting him in a difficult situation straight away". I read that as he has a difficult decision with KQ / A5 and therefore might find a fold some of the time (not good for us). But if by difficult decision we mean he calls with these hands drawing almost dead, then that's obviously fine.

Bottom line for me, and this is obviously oldschool, is that from a 10,000 foot view we have TPokK that is unlikely to improve OOP in a big SPR pot. Overall, we mainly want to play a fairly small pot while getting to showdown, which typically means either throwing in a check somewhere or betting smallish/reasonablish when we bet (and all the while attempting to disguise our holdings). Bomb/bombing doesn't seem to accomplish that overall goal here. ETA: FWIW, I don't think we're disagreeing.

GcluelessNLnoobG

We aren’t. I actually think you’re playing this spot pretty well lol.

I do think a bet in general plays slightly better against this opponent type because I think we still do stand to have the best hand more often than not, and we can’t reasonably expect him to willingly put money into our hand for us. It’s not wildly different from check, though, and sometimes turn goes check check and we can get called by a hand that would’ve folded turn facing the ominous threat of a huge river bet. Definitely don’t find check to be bad, and I could be wrong and it’s the best play.

But its pretty clear when the merits of check vs regular sized bet are the main options being discussed, overbet is just not working.


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Flop sizing is fine in a live 1/3 game in my opinion. Turn sizing is starting to get dicey, not a big fan of the sizing, especially against described opponent.

As played I probably fold river.