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Straddling Straddling

08-06-2016 , 02:30 PM
I never straddle, and it seems the general consensus on here is not to straddle, but I wondered if any of you guys do straddle, and the reasons or criteria.

Just for fun? Because you can exploit a weak table?

If so is it only certain type of straddles, e.g. only a button straddle if it's available.
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08-06-2016 , 03:23 PM
I think it might depend on the table dynamics and whether you are playing with the same players on a regular basis. I play a 1/2 game at a local card room, where there is two at most cash tables going at the same time, and play against regulars and semi-regulars, some of who straddle nearly all the time and others who straddle around 25% of the time, so I straddle every now and again to try and give the impression I'm there to gamble it up. I'm not sure whether it works or not but the players that never straddle sort of stick out like a sore thumb.
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08-06-2016 , 03:40 PM
It's a feel thing for me. If there are a lot of people doing it and having a good time, get in there and do it as well (be a good sport). You don't have to do it every time but don't be that vulture that just sits there and doesn't contribute to the action environment. Gamble a little/show you are there to play.

On the other hand, if you are at a slow/nitty full ring table (and can't table change ) and no one is straddling I wouldn't either. However, one thing I like to do in these games especially if stacks are deep is try to and see if the table wants to do rounds of straddles with you. Deep stacks and rounds of straddles are a great way to get a slow game out of the muck. If you are a good player and can get the mandatory going it will do wonders for your winrate.

If you are at a boring table where people are unwilling to even do a round though I wouldn't make it a habit. Regularly putting in money blind with the worst position at the table full ring sucks if people aren't willing to give you the same action.
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08-06-2016 , 07:13 PM
There are some meta game considerations (combatting a nit image, loosening up a table etc.). I don't concern myself with that all that much. The biggest reason I'll straddle (only ever on button) is if there is a player in the blinds that I want to act first for whatever reason. Like if it's a deep stacked super aggro guy or someone who I eant to act before me because it changes what I play. The only other time I can think of it is if stacks are deep enough with a bad player that I don't think I'll be able to get it all if I'm in a spot with them. Then I might give a little preflop EV with the straddle to make bigger it's in position and hope I can get it in for $600 instead of $200.
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08-06-2016 , 09:02 PM
Straddling is like a miniature c/r preflop. You force the dudes to come in for two big blinds each and BANG you always raise if no one has raised coming in in the first place.
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08-06-2016 , 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MamaRolex
Straddling is like a miniature c/r preflop. You force the dudes to come in for two big blinds each and BANG you always raise if no one has raised coming in in the first place.
And anyone who has played more than 5 mins knows straddlers do this all the time so they limp with big hands.
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08-06-2016 , 09:37 PM
Depends on stack sizes, aggressiveness of other players, and position. I button straddle a lot when I know weak players will limp everything and just play super passive OOP. UTG less so but will do it if table is in gamble mode and/or I know that players behind me won't raise enough to deny odds pre and post.
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08-06-2016 , 09:51 PM
I play 2/5 NL, where it's usually the biggest game around. If the whales come in and want a straddle, then I'll straddle and play 5/10 NL. If they want a bomb pot, then I play that too (everyone puts up $25 and checks the flop).

The whales generally lose $1k-$2k.
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08-06-2016 , 11:22 PM
In games that allow button straddles where the blinds have to act first how are you guys constructing your opening ranges from the blinds? Obviously any raise from SB or BB is going to look super strong since you're sub UTG. So far I have chosen to just keep everything balanced by limping my entire range? And then if there is a raise I just 3bt what I normally would from the blinds, which is almost always straight value since the straddle shrinks effective stacks.

Last edited by A_C_Slater; 08-06-2016 at 11:28 PM.
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08-07-2016 , 12:48 AM
In the room I frequent often there are quite a few straddles, both UTG and BTN, more double straddles than most guys on here have seen, and the triple straddle is not uncommon. I have a pretty good idea how most of the regs play their straddles and adjust my range accordingly. These situations are fluid from session to session, so I have to look to adjust continuously as the dynamic evolves.

I like to straddle on the BTN when stacks are deep. I look to avoid the UTG straddle unless the table has agreed to a round. I am the last to say yes to a round of straddles if there aren't more than a couple deep stacks on the table because usually one of the nits/OMCs will shoot the idea down before I have to say anything and its not me being the "bad guy" saying no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_C_Slater
In games that allow button straddles where the blinds have to act first how are you guys constructing your opening ranges from the blinds? Obviously any raise from SB or BB is going to look super strong since you're sub UTG. So far I have chosen to just keep everything balanced by limping my entire range? And then if there is a raise I just 3bet what I normally would from the blinds, which is almost always straight value since the straddle shrinks effective stacks.
It depends who is on the button. If I know they will defend their straddles religiously with most of their range I will raise looking to iso. A limp/3! from the blinds allows V to play against us with our hand face up most of the time; do we really want to reopen the action with all previous callers still to act behind? In the games I play there are enough regs that will 4 bet large/shove to put the pressure on us.
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08-07-2016 , 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeStarr
And anyone who has played more than 5 mins knows straddlers do this all the time so they limp with big hands.
By the time some one gets to have a big hand, I already clean-up $100 or more. And by the way; a big hand for the regular dude is only AA, KK or AK. Even the AK or QQ most Vegas tourists play as drawing hands. They all try to draw on the flop without investing 50% of their stack pre. Now, we're talking about big and fine losing players.
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08-07-2016 , 12:02 PM
Good to loosen up the game and your image. If you are in a game with straddles don't be the guy who doesn't do it. Gamblers dont like that guy.
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08-07-2016 , 01:50 PM
Unless stacks at your table are pretty shallow I think a button straddle is a no brainer. You are inflating the size of the pot while you are in position. Generally that's going to be a winning proposition.

Playing out of the SB/BB in a button straddle pot is very difficult. I'll generally limp most of my range from the blinds and open something like AQs/AK, JJ+. You get in a lot of tough spots from the blinds though, so you are folding the vast majority of hands.
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08-07-2016 , 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamitontheriver
Unless stacks at your table are pretty shallow I think a button straddle is a no brainer. You are inflating the size of the pot while you are in position. Generally that's going to be a winning proposition.

Playing out of the SB/BB in a button straddle pot is very difficult. I'll generally limp most of my range from the blinds and open something like AQs/AK, JJ+. You get in a lot of tough spots from the blinds though, so you are folding the vast majority of hands.
I'd rather ONLY inflate the pot in position when I want to and when certain people have entered the pot. Straddling from the button is 100% better than straddling UTG, but it still makes no sense to me. I can probably think of only 2 people Ive played with who do it regularly that are good solid players. The other countless numbers of them that Ive played with stink.
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08-07-2016 , 08:59 PM
You should always straddle the button if the rules allow.

I straddle UTG from time to time and it depends on why. Sonetimes im deep and want people to play bigger pots than they are used to. Other times its simply to loosen the game up. Sometimes if its a limpy table i will straddle just to steal the limps. And sometimes i simply want to buy the option.

Its just another tool in my arsenal

I hate games that allow button straddles tho. The SB should fold without looking at his cards (not really but close)
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08-07-2016 , 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeStarr
I'd rather ONLY inflate the pot in position when I want to and when certain people have entered the pot. Straddling from the button is 100% better than straddling UTG, but it still makes no sense to me. I can probably think of only 2 people Ive played with who do it regularly that are good solid players. The other countless numbers of them that Ive played with stink.
Probably 80% of pros in my room straddle button so you may just have a limited sample size.

Bigger pots amplify pre flop mistakes. If you have a skill advantage and a position advantage, cards are way less important. Plus most tables are so passive you can drive the action from the straddle.

Now this is best when stacks are all 150 BBs+. Throw in a few 50 BB stacks and it is way less appealing.
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08-07-2016 , 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by AcePlayerDeluxe
Good to loosen up the game and your image. If you are in a game with straddles don't be the guy who doesn't do it. Gamblers dont like that guy.
Don't be that guy, you stick out like dogballs.
Was playing a game on the weekend 2/5 with straddles. First few hands was 2/5/10 then ended up 2/5/10/25 game was great. The 25 was only put in from 1 player thought . I didn't mind putting the 10,I know it is bad but giving up an extra 2bb a lap in this game is a well worth the price of admission.
Then 1 guy who never puts straddle on raises to 30 and everyone folds just out of spite (guess what he had AA)
If you want action you got to give action

Sent from my HTC 2PST1 using 2+2 Forums
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08-07-2016 , 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_C_Slater
In games that allow button straddles where the blinds have to act first how are you guys constructing your opening ranges from the blinds? Obviously any raise from SB or BB is going to look super strong since you're sub UTG. So far I have chosen to just keep everything balanced by limping my entire range? And then if there is a raise I just 3bt what I normally would from the blinds, which is almost always straight value since the straddle shrinks effective stacks.
If a game allows a button straddle, I don't play in that game. it violates (for me) a basic premise of the game by mucking with position.
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08-07-2016 , 11:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
I'd rather ONLY inflate the pot in position when I want to and when certain people have entered the pot. Straddling from the button is 100% better than straddling UTG, but it still makes no sense to me. I can probably think of only 2 people Ive played with who do it regularly that are good solid players. The other countless numbers of them that Ive played with stink.
How many good solid players have you played with? I'm sure countless numbers of players who don't regularly button straddle also stink.
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08-07-2016 , 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by AsianNit
How many good solid players have you played with? I'm sure countless numbers of players who don't regularly button straddle also stink.
Honestly, not too many. But "good, solid" is relative.
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08-07-2016 , 11:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamitontheriver
Probably 80% of pros in my room straddle button so you may just have a limited sample size.

Bigger pots amplify pre flop mistakes. If you have a skill advantage and a position advantage, cards are way less important. Plus most tables are so passive you can drive the action from the straddle.

Now this is best when stacks are all 150 BBs+. Throw in a few 50 BB stacks and it is way less appealing.
Bigger pots amplify mistakes of course but as people here love to say, straddling cuts the stack sizes in half, and smaller stack sizes take away the better players advantages. Also, most games I play in always have several short stacks.

Better players should be playing deeper games so why straddle and make the stacks shorter?
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08-07-2016 , 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
Honestly, not too many. But "good, solid" is relative.
What conclusion would you draw if 2 out of 20 regular button straddlers were good, solid players and 10 out of 200 non-straddlers were good, solid players?
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08-07-2016 , 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianNit
What conclusion would you draw if 2 out of 20 regular button straddlers were good, solid players and 10 out of 200 non-straddlers were good, solid players?
I would conclude that 10% of straddlers were good solid players and 5% of non straddlers were good solid players.

However, thats not even close to what I find.
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08-08-2016 , 01:25 AM
I never have straddled, the place I go only does UTG straddles anyway so it's pretty much throwing money away. However, I would straddle if the rest of the table was doing it, no point in being 'that guy'.
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08-08-2016 , 01:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyLikeABird
It's a feel thing for me. If there are a lot of people doing it and having a good time, get in there and do it as well (be a good sport). You don't have to do it every time but don't be that vulture that just sits there and doesn't contribute to the action environment. Gamble a little/show you are there to play.

On the other hand, if you are at a slow/nitty full ring table (and can't table change ) and no one is straddling I wouldn't either. However, one thing I like to do in these games especially if stacks are deep is try to and see if the table wants to do rounds of straddles with you. Deep stacks and rounds of straddles are a great way to get a slow game out of the muck. If you are a good player and can get the mandatory going it will do wonders for your winrate.

If you are at a boring table where people are unwilling to even do a round though I wouldn't make it a habit. Regularly putting in money blind with the worst position at the table full ring sucks if people aren't willing to give you the same action.
Couldn't have said it better myself!
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