I just got home and I literally played one hand and got stacked somehow. I buy in for the max ($300) at 1/2 and I get AJ off suit in later POS. A person 2 seats before me raises to $12 and we call. (I'm trying to be more aggressive and I think this is a theee bet in my eyes.) but anyway, we go to the flop of A-K-2, with the K and 2 being hearts. He bets out $35 and I call. The turn is another Ace, he checks and I go ahead and bet out $50. River is an off suit 5 and he jams for about a pot sized bet or maybe a little over. I was thinking he could've floated with Q-10 of hearts, possibly that hand off suit, an A of something of hearts. We call and he shows A-2 of diamonds. So he flopped 2 pair and turned the boat over us. Let me know what you all think of what happened.
Or maybe QJ of hearts as well. I believe that we had the ace of hearts in our hand also. So those combos come down a little bit. Maybe this is a fold but ultimately I think the pre flop action would've changed this hand for me.
I think this is a clear fold given the action and here's why: You're behind AK, AQ, A5, A2, KK, 22,55(less likely because he'd fold the turn) and beat all other aces and missed flush draws. So it looks like a call, right? But you need to think of the entire picture. Would he had taken such a line with all the other Aces? I don't think so. He would not have checked the turn with that flush draw there. Furthermore this is a typical line at low stakes: checking when they hit the nuts not to scare their opponent so you need to be aware of that and correlate it with the future action. In this case his shove otr should send alarm signals. Very few players at low stakes take this line as a bluff.
I think this is a clear fold given the action and here's why: You're behind AK, AQ, A5, A2, KK, 22,55(less likely because he'd fold the turn) and beat all other aces and missed flush draws. So it looks like a call, right? But you need to think of the entire picture. Would he had taken such a line with all the other Aces? I don't think so. He would not have checked the turn with that flush draw there. Furthermore this is a typical line at low stakes: checking when they hit the nuts not to scare their opponent so you need to be aware of that and correlate it with the future action. In this case his shove otr should send alarm signals. Very few players at low stakes take this line as a bluff.
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Yeah I was thinking of what I was behind as well. I thought about it for a little bit, the fold is a good play in my eyes but I think it should've been controlled by the pre flop aggression. If I three bet it maybe I can get a fold pre flop or maybe get him to check flop instead of bet out and I can check behind. I do think the river is a fold since most player if not all at 1/2 are not going to go full maniac and jam the river without some sense they are going to for sure win the hand. I just don't know how often I'm going to lose to that type of person. Like in the past, I either give people too much credit or not enough when it comes to 1/2 since I know more about the game than the typical person that walks in, but I think me slowing down and really thinking and being aggressive is where I'm lacking.
OOP jams OTR (without prior hand history) are usually nutted at 1/3 from my experience
Yeah I was thinking the same thing on the way home. I don't see how he can do this with other aces unless it's a spiked A5 on the river, AK or A2 which he had. It shcks that I didn't check back the turn but the other ace coming is basically what drew me in. Without that I wouldn't of called a river shove for sure, and possibly on sizing a river bet at all since he bet so much on the flop considering pot size. Like I said below, I need to be more aggressive and slow down analysis mid hand to grasp what is truly happening.
With the Ace on the turn, it made it less likely an Ace would be in his range, thus shifting his range to KK/22 when he checks/calls the turn. If he held an Ax hand, he'd likely bet again because of the heart draws.
With the Ace on the turn, it made it less likely an Ace would be in his range, thus shifting his range to KK/22 when he checks/calls the turn. If he held an Ax hand, he'd likely bet again because of the heart draws.
I think two's are basically the hand I should've put him on. Like you said, ace on turn makes his hand combos with aces shorten. I just needed to slow down and think the hand through before betting the turn. Maybe check back when he does to avoid bad spots that he could put me in with better aces and such.
You don't want him to fold preflop, nor do you want to check behind on this flop if you 3 bet preflop.
I think he would've to a three bet considering low stakes action to those types of bets but I see him check raising the flop if I bet or at least calling and the turn destroys me again so you are right.
You lose to around 11 realistic hand combos here. I dont think its a slam dunk fold like most seem to just because we dont lose to that many hands, but its probably closer to a fold. Would he take this line with Ax that you beat? Not that likely. He probably would have bet the turn with Ax. Him checking the turn a blasting river is suspicious
You leveled yourself to death. The villain is never bluffing in this spot with that river bet. Villains at this stake do not bet pot sized bets without a very strong holding (especially on paired, flushed, str boards).
River is a pretty easy fold. Think about your perceived range:
1. You raised pre
2. You bet out 35 otf
Villain probably thinks you most likely have AT+, maybe something like KQ, and maybe it's just a cbet with hands that whiffed, but usually underpairs start checking with both A sand K otf.
3. You bet 50 ott
At this point I'm thinking your sizing is a bit small and you're trying to get value while not making it too expensive to get to showdown. If i'm villain, I think you have exactly AT or AJ a lot of the time. I feel like AQ bets a little more, and AK bets a lot more. But you could still also have a hand KQ and want to keep betting so you don't look too weak (which would be a bad idea).
Now assuming villain thinks you probably have AT-AQ, and the 5 peels, and he shoves - what do you think he wants you to do? Call or fold? It would be an awful bluff to try to make somebody fold trip aces with a decent kicker, so I'm betting he wants you to call. If you have the hand that he most likely thinks you have, and if he wants you to call - then you should clearly fold.
Edit - oops hero didn't raise pre... it just makes hero's range a little weaker, but still about the same
Last edited by pocketzeroes; 04-06-2017 at 01:34 PM.
I think I might have been the villain in this hand...was this at Parx? I had a very similar hand like this in Feb.
IMO the average villain only shoves here with AK or a boat. Since this was your first hand (and you didn't have a read on villain) and you didn't have chips in your pocket to buy back in if you made a mistake, you sigh fold and live to fight another hand.
You don't want him to fold preflop, nor do you want to check behind on this flop if you 3 bet preflop.
So I misled some or all of you. After thinking for some time about this hand, I remember betting $75 on the river. So what happened was this: he raises to $12 pre and I call. Flop is the same, he bets $35 and I call. Turn is the same, he checks and I bet $50 he calls. River is the same, he checks instead of the initial jam I thought he did. This is when I bet $75 and he re raised all in for about $100 more or maybe less. That's the only change.
I think I might have been the villain in this hand...was this at Parx? I had a very similar hand like this in Feb.
IMO the average villain only shoves here with AK or a boat. Since this was your first hand (and you didn't have a read on villain) and you didn't have chips in your pocket to buy back in if you made a mistake, you sigh fold and live to fight another hand.
I'm in MO but it sounds like a few people have had this hand. I pretty much leveled myself into thinking he would be doing this with a worse Ace or a bluff.
