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small pot, loose passive player over shove 2x pot do i call with top pair nut flush draw small pot, loose passive player over shove 2x pot do i call with top pair nut flush draw

02-16-2016 , 08:43 AM
Hello
live 1/2. Hero play with 4 of them regularly and the regulars are nits
4 way family pot limping
Hero has AT off suit in the small blind,
BB is a super rock. a few players does not raise preflop except AA-QQ (they really limp with AK) but calling losse with good hand
Hero here elect to just call (???), knowing BB will check unless he have AK or QQ+. (maybe I should raise? I do not like to play out of position)

Flop 47A, 47of club, hero have A of club
Hero check,
UTG player who is playing loose preflop but only bet with good card post flop bet out 10$. UTG player is losing, hero also doubt if he count the pot. To my observation, he only lead out when he hit his hand.
all fold to hero, hero call.
Turn is a 3 of club (to 56 complete straight)
hero check, UTG shove about 50$, Pot is about $25
UTG does limp with AK which I saw before
In live setting, hero actually took a lot of time thinking about this. If this was one year ago I would snap call
I have a nut flush draw and top pair
I put in 50 to win 75, Is a call profitable?
Notice UTG is loose passive player and It was very strange to me that he leads out this strong.

Hero tank, table mates call clock, hero ??
any thoughts?

Last edited by Garick; 02-16-2016 at 09:09 AM. Reason: Removed results
small pot, loose passive player over shove 2x pot do i call with top pair nut flush draw Quote
02-16-2016 , 09:22 AM
By my math you need 40% equity here to call and I don't think you have it. You basically have to hit your flush to win based on your description. Some chance V is just spazzing for sure but I don't think that happens enough to justify the call, especially if hands like AJ/AQ/AK are in this guys limping range.

I fold.
small pot, loose passive player over shove 2x pot do i call with top pair nut flush draw Quote
02-16-2016 , 09:36 AM
pre: you should at least consider raising. yes, it sucks you are OOP, but its very possible you have the best hand. if this hand went heads-up after a raise, it would probably be simpler

are there 4 to the flop, then?

you describe Villain as 'loose passive' but betting real hands post-flop. will he bet flush draws with no pair? i'm assuming not

i'm going to say a passive player leading into 3 others has something decent, TPGK+ or 2pair. the turn shove is also out of character, but it doesnt make me want to call

you need to call 50 to win 125 (75 + 50), so you need 40% equity to call his overbet. your flush draw only gives you less than half that (9 outs * rule of 2 = 18%), and an A may not do it. a T may not do it either, if he has some weird flush combo or a set

i'm folding without any more info
small pot, loose passive player over shove 2x pot do i call with top pair nut flush draw Quote
02-16-2016 , 09:42 AM
Hi, OP. Please don't post results (even your action) as it can prejudice people's advice. I took that out.

Also, please use the LLSNL hand-format, as your post is rather hard to follow. Please put all info about each V together, including stack size and reads.

So UTG is your main villain and is loose-passive with a very wide limping range and a $62 stack?

In a limped pot, I could see raising ATo pre to thin the field and often steal the pot OTF, or just completing, depending on the Vs in the hand.

On the flop, I bet out with TPMK and the BDFD. No one with an ace will fold, and since AT is pretty much the top of a limping range (for everyone except UTG, apparently), no one likely has a better ace than you. OK, now a loose-passive player who open limped has bet in to 6 players on a pretty dry board. His range here? You say he open limps AK? So he has 44, 77, and AX-AK in his range? How far down is X? To be honest, I just fold here unless he literally has every AX in his range.

OTT, he looks like he is afraid of the draws and pretty confident that he is good right now. To me this makes his range AT+, A7s, A4s, 44, and 77. Sound right? You are 29.5% against that range. You are being asked to pay $50 of what will be a $125 pot, so you'd be putting in 40% of the pot. It's a pretty clear fold.
small pot, loose passive player over shove 2x pot do i call with top pair nut flush draw Quote
02-16-2016 , 03:11 PM
Pre, I wouldn't raise AT into a field of loose passives. They will call and now we hate most flops and don't even know where we stand on Axx. I would be happier to raise pre with a table full of tight passives.

Flop, I don't mind checking and seeing what ensues. Players are passive or rocks so I'd like to see who does what. If we bet and get called, we're not loving it. We could be ahead of a draw or behind AJ+. Do we bet turn with RIO or risk giving a free card? OOP I'd rather keep the pot small.

Now a guy who only bets good cards post leads out. Let him have it. You have nothing invested in this hand. Go with your read of his image. Move on and play IP.

Sigh fold to the shove.
small pot, loose passive player over shove 2x pot do i call with top pair nut flush draw Quote
02-17-2016 , 07:32 AM
Thanks for all the reply
Learn a lot
I will learn to follow the fules and format thanks
small pot, loose passive player over shove 2x pot do i call with top pair nut flush draw Quote

      
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