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Showdown or vbet ? Showdown or vbet ?

08-04-2014 , 05:57 AM
Vil is tight older guy reg, in general he is fairly solid. Hero has relatively aggroimage.
Game is 1/2 eff stack 200
Vil limps in mp, hero raises 15 from co(JsKh)everyone folds except villain.
Flop(35):8dThOh vil and hero both check
Turn(35):Ah vil checks hero bets 20 vil min raises 40 hero calls
River(115): vil checks hero bets 50 vil snap shoves for 145 total.
At that point I'm getting almost 1/3,5odds(90/310) so I need around 23%.
Thoughts about vbet Otr,bet sizing,calling or folding and any comments in general are more than welcome.
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08-04-2014 , 06:23 AM
We'll need to know the river card
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08-04-2014 , 06:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by feel wrath
We'll need to know the river card
+1

guessing the board paired?
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08-04-2014 , 07:14 AM
The river was a blank 3 of spades.
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08-04-2014 , 07:44 AM
This hand is totally dependent on your reads, so as we go through these questions, you might need to remember some additional detail, and also think about what your image was at the table.

1. KJo? What's the plan here? To flop the nut straight and take it down? Not a great idea. You will flop a straight draw a fair amount of time but you would be amazed how often you wind up flopping a semi-OK hand that's just good enough to lose money. See "trouble hands" in Brunson's "Supersystem."
2. If you have a tight and aggressive image, you can leverage your position with KJo to take down a small pot on the flop. If that's your plan, you're in good shape on the flop. You have equity vs. villain's likely range. You need to bet in order to maximize that equity. (Betting adds fold equity to your hand equity). You might not have much fold equity here, odds are good villain has a piece of that flop. By the same token, checking and hoping to get paid off is kind of weak; I mean, what's he gonna turn that you beat, that pays off on a straight board? (Search these forums for commentary on when and why to cbet. Also search for advice on hand reading, ie "ranges.")
3. Much the same logic applies to the turn, and I'm glad you finally bet. What does that min-raise tell you? Hint: is it time for you to be somewhere else? I guess this is read dependent, so think back. Has this guy ever tried to bluff-raise anyone since you've been there? (At 1/2? I'll believe it when I see it.)
4. Let's think about the river. By now, what kind of hands do you think villain is on? Gotta think back to the beginning; what would he be willing to limp from MP, check on that board, check-raise on that turn, and crai on the blank river? Now take a walk in his shoes. What (if anything) makes sense for you to have, given your line?

As played, fold river, fold turn, fold pre because you're not ready to engage tight, aggressive players. Read more. Get an online account at Bovada, which is where you are gonna learn how to play poker. Keep posting hands.

Last edited by AbqDave; 08-04-2014 at 07:52 AM.
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08-04-2014 , 04:34 PM
Am I missing something? There's exactly one hand (9h Jh) that beats us, correct?

There's no way I'm folding here. Snap call.
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08-04-2014 , 04:40 PM
any flush beats us...
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08-04-2014 , 04:46 PM
meh, never mind. i can't read. though that was 8h.

yeah folding here
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08-05-2014 , 05:21 AM
I folded rather quickly but I was wondering if the bet Otr was too thin. When he checks Otr I think his range is some kind of turned 2 pair or straight. The c/r ofc blew me out of the hand.
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08-05-2014 , 08:49 AM
After the turn min-raise, betting river with less then a huge hand is usually a mistake. For most villains the turn min-raise is a weakish hand finding out where they are or near nuts trying to squeeze some more money. That means their range is mostly polarized between hands that won't call any bet on river and hands that are going to shove.

With more experience on what villain min-raises turn with betting river could be OK. Some villains will never check their big hands after raising turn, so when they check river you can bet small and hope for a crying call. If villain will sometimes min-raise with weaker hands but still station off on river, betting might be OK.
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08-05-2014 , 10:42 AM
I fold to the shove. He's got the flush most of the time. You're not getting 3:1 to make the call.

The bet is pretty thin after he raises you on the turn. I would just check and see what he does.
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08-05-2014 , 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod888
I fold to the shove. He's got the flush most of the time. You're not getting 3:1 to make the call.

The bet is pretty thin after he raises you on the turn. I would just check and see what he does.
Im in position co vs mp, he checks the river.My thoughts were what quadJ said exactly.
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08-05-2014 , 02:11 PM
Whoops, you're right. I like the bet/fold on the river better, then.
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08-05-2014 , 05:31 PM
I would bet flop. Other than that, hand is played fine. Good discipline to fold on river.
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