This came up this weekend and I kind of feel bad about it. Should I pay villian next time I see him?

I am on the btn in the 7 seat and it is 1/2 and villian is 2 seat with a $5 straddle.

I open raise q9o to $15 and only v calls.

Flop is 964 w 2 diamonds. Villian c/c $25.

Turn is and off suit 5. Villian donks $35 and calls a raise to $100.

River is a king and villian pushes for $60 and I call.

He pauses and doesn't flip over his hand as is standard. He then says you got it, I have 7 high. I flip my hand over and villian flashes cards to neighbor and throws them face down toward the center of the table. As dealer is bringing the cards around the board, neighbor says you have a straight. The dealer pauses for a second then buries the cards deep into the muck. Floor is called and I am awarded the pot as the villian never tabled his hand. Should I feel bad about winning this pot? Should I give V any money next time I see him. I never actually saw his cards or I would have given him the pot. On this board there are only two 7 high had 73 or 72. It he had a straight he had it on the turn so misreading his hand was more than one street.

You are way too nice

No, neighbor might have been mistaken. Who knows that's why you show two. Can't win pot with one card shown.

Villian didn't show any cards His cards weren't in the muck yet when neighbor made comment. It was a large pot for 1-2 ~400. I don't really like winning that way. It kind of feels like cheating. I am not an angle shooter and I try to do the most fair thing at the tables. And I am not a nice person.

When he mucked the game is over.
Who knows, maybe both were joking saying 7high, straight.

Actually, the villain would be the one who cheated. If he had turned his cards over and showed a winning hand, then YOU should be making a stink to the floor guy.

He was clearly, most definitely, no question mucking his hand, right? He said the words "you win, I have 7 high" right?

That's it, in my opinion, hand over. Unless he tables his hand, in which case, the cards speak.

However....once the second guy makes his comment, now both of those players have violated the "one player to a hand rule", and in my opinion the hand is dead.

That's just my interpretation of the rules, I think you're chances of convincing a floor person, are about 50/50

Personally, I've seen this situation where teh floor ruled that the hand could be tabled. But in that case, it was pretty iffy whether his motion was mucking, or if he was turning over his cards.

In this case, he definitely said the words "you win", so he was definitely in the process of mucking.

I might feel a little sorry for villain but I'm not giving him his money back. He showed his hand to his friend but didn't table them, so no way to confirm and it's clearly his fault.

The only 7 high hand possible is 72, 73 makes the turn straight. If villain called preflop with 72 he was intending to steal the pot but his calling your raise on the turn is absurd in that situation. Most likely villain had 76/75 and turned pair+OESD.

87 as well.

Im not giving this guy his money back. No way. People make mistakes all the time. Also there was no proof he made a mistake, just hearsay

Villain decided he didn't want to give any information about his hand and not table it and mucked it instead. You're 100% right to drag the pot and owe no one anything, imo.

If anyone gets upset just handle it with good nature, and possibly tell a story of you making the same mistake in the past.

Gifyouwanttoclaimthepot,tableyourhand;ifnot,don'tG

Tables turned - would you expect to be awarded money back if you did this? (didn't think so - me either).

Nope, not giving it back. Everyone followed the rules. Glad the dealer buried the cards in the muck -- he did his job well.

GJ by the dealer here. V mucked his hand, forfeiting any right to the pot. If he had tabled his hand, then he wins the pot, as cards speak, but he didn't. Neighbor deserves a KITN for commenting on a mucked hand.

#1 rule of poker is protect your hand. He did not do this. We make money by making less mistake for less money than our opponents. Again, he made a mistake. Once a hand is mucked it is (should be) dead.

The nicer the guy, the poorer the card player

Poker is predatory in nature. You need to exploit ignorance and go for the kill ALL THE TIME to win long term. But this is a great thing too. As someone who struggles with codependency issues, I shoulder a lot of excess burdens in my daily life. I love poker because you owe nothing to your opponent as long as you follow house rules. If we start injecting morality into the game, it sucks. Now I have to worry about coolering a guy who is playing scared money. That sucks. Don't ruin this for me. Don't pay that guy.

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This. Villain chose not to exercise his right to table his hand whereupon he would have been afforded the right to have the dealer and any other player at the table read and interpret his hand for him.

By mucking without tabling he forfeits that right to assistance.

I'll add that in my view in the spirit of the rules, had villain tabled his hand and the dealer mis-read the hand it would be correct for you to point out that he wins. But I'm interested whether anyone disagrees with this.

It is all players responsibility (including ours), and probably actually a stronger moral duty, to speak up if they believe they notice a dealer error.

GcluelessmoralsnoobG

Don't pay him. I had a guy throw his hand down folding, then reached across the table and flipped his cards over for the winning hand. The floor was called over saying his hand was dead and awarded me the pot. (He did muck his cards but then realized he had a straight)

This guy never even showed both cards. He probably did not even have a straight.

I agree. I actually had a guy get really mad at me for telling the dealer the other guy had a flush for the winning hand. I said sorry, but the cards speak for themselves.

He played two more hands then left cussing me out as he was leaving. I just smiled and said, "can't wait to play with you again".

If he wasn't facing a bet....wrong ruling IMO

I think the dealer had already touched the cards. Don't know if that would effect the ruling.

1) One player per hand please.

2) Player clearly mucked his hand.

I would never think twice about it here...

But perhaps we need 11t to give a ruling on this one?

It is not a violation of 1p to a hand for any player to correct a mis-awarded pot if the hand in question was tabled. It is in fact a responsibility to inform the dealer of the mistake.

If the hand has not been tabled 1p to a hand most definitely still applies.

Roberts Rules of Poker:

After the section stating cards speak when a hand is tabled...

I understand the rules but if the dealer would have stopped and flipped his cards over and he had a straight I wouldn't have had a problem w giving him the pot. It wasn't like he was trying to angle shoot me or trying to tilt me since I don't tilt anymore. I jus would rather not have someone who is new have a bad first experience.

I'm not going to pay him since I never actually saw his cards.

I would have a problem with that