Live 1/2 NL. 3rd position raises to 8. I make it 20 in HJ with AA. He folds AQo face up. Should I 3-bet in this situation with a big pair or only after a raise with callers?

After that experience, early position limper, 4th position makes it 7. I make it 20 again from HJ with KJo. The small raise is usually not a big hand and I read the raiser as weak. Limper goes allin for 30. Raiser calls and I call. Flop comes AKx. It is checked. I bet the turn and preflop raiser folds apparently accidently showing a T. I chop with limper who also had KJo.

Of course I have to show my hand. I asked original raiser if he had TT. He replied that he had JT and called because it was a good hand for cracking AA/KK and I couldn't reraise the partial raise allin.

Think 3-betting light is effective in these games, but I am wondering if you should sometimes not 3-bet for value in mid position unless you have already shown you 3-bet light. People play badly, but you maybe turn your hand face up and they only setmine or whatever.

I don't look or play like an Internet kid, but it should have been obviously to anyone decent that I was a decent player.

Yes. You should def 3-bet with AA. Making a move with KJ depends on position, stack sizes, etc. With a short limper in between you and ORer, no, bad plan.

In order to get the most of your aces longterm you need to get them threeway or headsup against oppenents whose ranges are defined by their preflop action with an spr you are comfortable playing. If you can flat and achieve the three objectives, then it is only a question of style. If you can not flat and achieve the three objectives, then you need to three bet to improve your opponents range, to fold out the 4th or 5th callers, or improve your spr.
I three bet a very wide range from late position, and almost never get four bet by anything except aa or kk. Most 1/2 players will set mine with bad odds, and passively fold after whiffing. Just have a preflop plan and postflop plan for every hand you three bet and you'll be fine.

I have to ask. 21k posts. Coach listing. This question. Wha??

+1

Trying games in am not used to post-BF.

Calling 3 bets too much is the average leak of the avg 1-2 player. His folding AQ you just found a nit.

and yes, 3 betting is very viable, but MUCH DIFFERENT from online. It will take a while to get adjusted.

Lol 99% of ppl are not folding AQ to a 3-bet live, absolute must 3-bet and this question is just being results orientated, you're gonna lose soooo much value if you don't 3-bet hands like AA KK QQ and probably more here. You can prob 3-bet the guy who folded AQo face up light for obvious reasons but most people just don't.. No need to be tricky etc. as even 95%+ of the regs at 1/2 live are awful or whatever, just play straight forward and you can take maney. gl

If you were on the button I could see some merit to flatting here, but never from the hijack. You'll get a caller from the co or button far too often. Even from the button I'd still 3 bet 99% the only way I wouldn't is if villain had shown that he respects 3 bets a lot but he is willing to stack off with tp on any board. Not so rare at low limit live.

2nd hand is a whole other story and could go so many ways depending on reads.

You're always going to want to 3b AA pf. There are certain situations where I won't 4b with AA but those are pretty rare.

The 3b with KJ I def don't like since the person who limped only has 30 behind. Although you might be ahead of his range it's just not a very good spot to be in imo where you're investing 15bb pf with KJo in what more than likely will be a multi way pot with side action.

While 3b light can def be profitable in a lot of situations I tend to steer away from it because I like to use my post-flop advantage against weaker players rather than 3b all the time. (For example you 3b light with KJ and the original raiser folds QJ, if you don't 3b and they flop top pair you're more than likely going to get 3 streets of value from them. B/f line is just super strong in live 1/2nl games.)

He's new to live obviously; live is an entirely different beast.

I mean most live players see the 3bet and randomly settle on an action. They will fold AQ 4 times in a row and then call with it 3 times. I wouldn't sweat when they fold and when they don't. It's pretty random decision making by villains.

I would argue that 3betting KJ IP is pretty -EV at this level without detailed reads on others' ranges (that I also would argue is difficult to come up with here). I think that I'm happier to 3bet K4s or J8s than KJo.

Does not compute. Somehow I do in fact think you likely look and play like a member of the 23 year old IPOD and hoodie crowd.

Oh, and it's silly not to want to 3-bet an $8 open in 1/2 NL live when you hold AA simply because of the results of one hand. Very few people are folding anything there that they made it $8 with, especially not AQ.

Would you rather call the $8 and have three others with random, impossible to read ranges behind you call as well?

The 3 bet sizing in the first hand has some serious problems. You won't be playing thousands of hands with these people so there's no need to balance. In fact, you'll hardly be 3 bet bluffing at all, if at all, so really don't balance at all. Given that you have aces and there's no reason to assume the villain in hand one is a solid player, just bump it up as much as you think he'll call. For most villains, that's going to be way more than $20.

Also by making it 20 you can't get money in on the turn. 20x2 pot is 40. if you cbet 30 the turn has 100 in the pot and still 130 behind. It's key to try to get these hands all in by the turn because these villains aren't showing up with only strong hands. A lot of the time they'll be calling with q/9s and chasing their flush. If you make it 80 on the turn and villain has a flush draw, you're just value owning yourself for an extra 50 dollars when he hits because you're never folding, and you're saving him 50 dollars because he's just going to check fold every river that he misses.

Hand 2 is fine depending on what you're doing. I'm not sure if you think k/j is behind his range and you're trying to get him to fold a hand like a/j or k/q, or if you're just trying to iso an fish. Either way your hand isn't that strong and your bet should accomplish both, as I said no need to balance even if they did just see you bump it to 38 with aces.

I think this is one of the best responses ive seen to any post, ever.

Agreed, well said bluegrass

My friend, very few people at 1-2 will recognize you as a decent poker player. Most 1-2 players are blind to what is happening around them. What people recognize is whether you are in pots or not.

Always raise AA in this position.

I think limping AA is something to only be done UTG when every pot is being raised in LP. And that tactic is debated by better players than I on this forum.

+1

This , hes playing a house game or wtf?

This is hugely important and a fairly common reason winning players have a lower hourly than they should.

Can you explain why it's bad to try and get it in OTT with good bet sizing preflop and on the flop? Not sure what's wrong with what he said

At 32 years old, I think that I fall into a similar situation here as you describe.
I think that this is actually quite a profitable way to be since people can't immediately determine how best to play against you. At 1/2 live, I've found that live it rarely necessary to balance your range since you'll rarely play more than a few hundred hands against the same people unless you're playing every day.

For 3-betting light or for value, I think this is based upon very simple reads of villains, as many simply set themselves up for you to play perfectly... a couple examples below of profitable situations that I've found.

1. The guy who once he puts a single chip in the pot will see a flop come hell or high water. Obviously we can value town this guy, but these guys also will give up when they miss flop. Since they'll miss flop more often than they hit, we can still 3-bet wide and show a profit. There's little risk in playing against these guys with a perfectly exploitable style: 3-bet larger for value, 3-bet smaller when lite to still isolate and possibly get away later.


2. The legend in his own mind, guy who won't stop talking about how great he is. He won't let you bully him preflop, so 3-bet him to value town. I tend to be a bit more cautious 3-betting light against these guys since he may float and shove over on a flop just so that he can show the table a big bluff and stoke his own ego.

I have noticed (no offense OP) that lots of internet players who are used to multitabling are really finding it difficult to find a rhythm in live games. You get used to playing formulaic poker with 8 games running at once, and you (naturally) assume that you should be able to formulaically play live - yet you see results that don't immediately correspond to your expectations, and start second guessing yourself.

You barely notice the times when you 3b AA and get folded to when 8 tables are up. Yet, you see it happen a couple of times in a live game however, and you begin thinking that the live game fundamentals must be much different than an online table...after all, every time you 3b AA for the past 2 days, you won the pot preflop - never mind that you only saw AA twice.

I think online players also dramatically underestimate how much they give away at the table in terms of tells. It's not rocket science for someone who is used to playing live to read you for AA/KK, if you are not used to guarding your mannerisms.

The fundamental game of NL holdem is the same online as it is live. The difference is that there is a lot more focus and attention given to each hand by each player in live poker. If someone only gets to play 6 or 7 hands an hour, you can expect that they will play those hands with a higher degree of attention (read: skill) than if they are playing 40 hands an hour at home in their underwear.

This is NOT to say that live players are better, or online players are better. Assuming we all start with the same fundamentals, live players will learn to play better live poker. Online players will obviously play better online poker.

Summarizing, no matter how hard it is, don't alter your perfect fundamental strategy just because you are playing live. You need to make three adjustments:

1. Focus more on each hand, and each player's mannerisms in each hand.

2. Learn or exhibit more patience.

3. Guard your own mannerisms.


Accept that it will take longer (in terms of hours/days) in live play for the swings to balance themselves out. They are no bigger than in online play, but online you can be dealt 500 hands per hour. Live you will be lucky to see 40. Meaning, an anomalous hour online is equal to 12 or more anomalous hours live.

Have you ever had a weird day online, where nothing quite made sense? That could translate to a weird month live.

Don't let yourself get retrained by what seems like odd results live. It's still just poker.

There is nothing wrong with that. I was agreeing with him, strongly.

As far as 3-betting light. I find in 1/2NL and 2/5NL that people often put you on a big pair. They will often fold the flop although they will chase draws. So therefore I think it is profitable and also makes my play harder to read. I am in the east coat USA, which is probably the nit capital.

Also, like 40% of the time I have 3-bet at 1/2 or 2/5NL I take it down preflop. Obviously, I don't mind this if I have AK rather than a big pair. Old guys and regulars particularly will fold. One time I 3-bet a regular and he folded and said "aces or kings". I often have a tight image though as I play much fewer hands than most of the players do.

As to tells, sometimes you will see this Internet player in a hoodie who is obviously pretty good, but for example you can often tell ahead of time if he is going to play the hand. I have plenty of experience at live tournaments where you get "stared down" and have a natural poker face.