Hey all,

I am looking to play some live games, but I had a selection question. The closer room plays 2-5 NL Max buy in 200.. Making the stacks 40 bb. The next closest is 2 hours further and 1-2 with 200 cap. I am comfortable playing deeper stacked, but if the close game is profitable I'd rather do that. Do you guys think a game with all short stacks will be worth the time?

It depends on what your time is worth, your skill level, what your goals are and how long you play your sessions. Personally, I wouldn't want to travel 4 hours in a day to go to a 1/2 game if there was even a remotely decent game closer.

Ask around at the bars or cigar shops. There needs to be a better structured game closer than that.

I am a college student, aka my time is not worth much. I don't know how to quantify my skill level, but having watched both of these games a couple time I am confident I can beat it. The 2/5 is 50 min away and the 1/2 is 2 hours away.

I live in the middle of kansas, there are no games closer I have looked.

I guess I am more asking if everyone is that shortstacked, will a short stacked strategy be profitable since most people will be playing premium hands making any edge I may have smaller?

Short stacked games can be fantastic if you understand it better than your opponents. Much study will be required on you part to make that determination.

My personal best long term hourly rate was in a 5-10 NL game with a $100 max buy. I crushed it. I GOT it. My opponents mostly didn't.

Any concepts you think you're average player doesn't get in these games? Or where I can increase my edge the most?

Edit: sorry realize that is too general of a question. I guess if you had one topic you think is most misunderstood in these type of games what would it be

Any more thoughts on the profitability of this game?

Study hand selection and the gap concept. You need a stronger hand to call a raise than you do to make an initial raise. IMO, that's most important thing in short stack strategy. SPRs are gonna be super low in the short stack game so big cards/big pairs are the way to go. Unless it's a limped pot or a small single-raise pot that goes multi-way, you're rarely going to get odds to set mine.

Great. I have a pretty good understanding of both of these topics.

In a game where almost everyone limps, I should still consider the gap concept correct? Depending on the player obviously, but if they play a week tight game and are limping with hands like AJ I would still need tighter range to raise correct?

I'm not typically raising over a bunch of limpers w worse than AJ, especially short stacked. Remember, SPR is basically going to commit you if you flop TPTK in a short stack game so if they limp w hands that are better than you are raising with, you're going to have to pay them off (and go broke).

Watch their limping ranges and adjust so that your raising range is ahead of their limping range. For example, if they will limp any Ax and get sticky when they flop TP, then raising AT+ is going to make you lots of money. If they limp AJ+ and you raise A9+, you're going to end up in a lot of bad spots. If it's not super aggro, you can over limp in position w good multiway hands (Axs, KQs, JTs, etc.).

Good luck.

Grunch.

I only read the thread title.

1. Find a new game.

2. If you can't... Stick to premium hand value. GII fast when you flop TPGK+ or a nut draw. That way you exploit your opponents tendency to call to wide when they don't have enough implied odds. Then ride the variance train.

So it sounds like driving the extra hour to get to the deeper stacked game makes
More sense? It will cost me $20 in gas but I'm confident I can win more than that playing deep stacked.

Wait.. You've got a 2/5 $200 cap 40 minutes away and a 1/2 $200 cap 2 hours and 40 minutes away?

Definitely the 2/5 game IMO. Driving that extra distance for the same total cap despite it being "deeper" isn't worth it IMO. If the 2/5 game is loose and gambly, stacks could get deep quick. I would find it hard to believe that everyone wouldn't still playing 34s every time they are dealt it. Just study up on your SS game and go crush em'. Be ready to lose your stack more than once though.

There has to be a better structured game somewhere, 40bb cap just sucks. Are you in a rural area of Kansas or anywhere near a somewhat populated city? If the latter, there's definitely better ones out there. Check meetup.com for any poker groups nearby, or free poker leagues in the area. Both of those can lead to better games.

If these are your only two games, you can still win. Just make it absolutely sure those are your only two options.

+1. Play broadway cards and big pairs. Don't play suited connectors and other hands with good implied odds until stacks get deeper.

Games like this can get much deeper if they run all day. Just because the max buy in is 40 bb doesn't mean that the average stack at the table will be 40 bb, or anywhere near itd, when you sit down.

I'd anticipate at least 1-2 deeper stacked Vs at any table that had been running for more than a few hours.

Definitely sure. I am quite a ways from Kansas City. I don't know if you know much about Manhattan Ks and cities west but they are pretty conservative where "gambling" is looked down upon.

Thanks for the input guys.

Honestly if a couple of the stacks aren't deeper by the time you sit down the game might not be worth much after rake, tip, etc.

So called the casino and they have a 2/5 game with a 300 max buy in on friday nights. Getting into a middle stack game sounds like a much better idea as I can take advantage of some postflop play and get to deep vs deep quicker. Also, the added bonus of a Friday night (The night the game is played) to the week night of the other one = more fish will be great.