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Short Stack with JJ facing 4-Bet All-In Raise Pre Short Stack with JJ facing 4-Bet All-In Raise Pre

12-04-2011 , 12:59 PM
10 Handed, B&M Casino, $1/$2 NLHE

Hero is in MP3 with JJ ($82)
Villain is in MP2 and covers

Preflop:
2 Folds, MP1 limps for $2, MP2 Raises to $12, Hero Re-Raises to $32, 6 Folds, MP2 4-Bet Raises to $87, Hero?

Just so everyone knows I'm short-stacking due to being at the end of my money for this trip. That's why I'm not sitting with a a full stack in this hand.

Villain is relatively new to the table but hasn't gotten out of line at all and has been playing fairly conservatively for the last 20-30 minutes that I have seen him play. He did 4-bet fairly quickly in this spot, so are we ok to fold, or is stacking off ok too? I feel as though this decision could go either way, fold or call. Barring any reads, what is our standard here, or do I have discretion like I stated previously? Opinions?
Short Stack with JJ facing 4-Bet All-In Raise Pre Quote
12-04-2011 , 01:22 PM
Put it in and hope for a flip, only $82
Short Stack with JJ facing 4-Bet All-In Raise Pre Quote
12-04-2011 , 01:25 PM
he has AK or AQ suited you have to hope. or madly agressive with tens. He wants you to ship though ( shipes for 87$? you have 82? hes over betting on purpose to look like a tard is my guess).

Ship and flip your cards first.
Short Stack with JJ facing 4-Bet All-In Raise Pre Quote
12-04-2011 , 01:29 PM
50 to win 125...get it in there and hope for AK. I dont really see V doing this EVER with less than 99+/AKs (given description) but its 50$...spoiler?
Short Stack with JJ facing 4-Bet All-In Raise Pre Quote
12-04-2011 , 01:36 PM
Since you're so short, his range is pretty wide to 4bet here. If you were like 100bb, he'd probably be 4betting extremely tight, like QQ+ and maybe AKs.

Conversely, in this spot, a reasonable shipping range against a 41BB stack here is probably something like TT+ and all of his AK hands, which you have more than enough equity to snap. You have 43% equity against that range, you're getting 2.3:1 on your call so you only need 30% equity to call. This is a pretty easy snap call. Even if we tighten his range to QQ+, AK, you still have 36% equity when you only need 30%+.
Short Stack with JJ facing 4-Bet All-In Raise Pre Quote
12-04-2011 , 01:40 PM
Why aren't you jamming pre? Don't think you have any other choice with your stack size.

As played, the pot is 119 (the extra 5 obv doesn't count) and you have to call 50. You are getting 2.4:1 so you need about 29% If you range him as only QQ+, then it's fold. But if you include JJ+ and AK (which you should), then it's a snap as you'll have 36% ish. Not to mention he could have AQ, TT, 99 etc knowing you are on your last money.
Short Stack with JJ facing 4-Bet All-In Raise Pre Quote
12-04-2011 , 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by acdawg712
Why aren't you jamming pre? Don't think you have any other choice with your stack size.

As played, the pot is 119 (the extra 5 obv doesn't count) and you have to call 50. You are getting 2.4:1 so you need about 29% If you range him as only QQ+, then it's fold. But if you include JJ+ and AK (which you should), then it's a snap as you'll have 36% ish. Not to mention he could have AQ, TT, 99 etc knowing you are on your last money.
What he said. 3b/fold is terrible here w/ your stack size.
Short Stack with JJ facing 4-Bet All-In Raise Pre Quote
12-04-2011 , 02:19 PM
3bet shoving pre is optimal here
AP, u kinda have to call given odds
Short Stack with JJ facing 4-Bet All-In Raise Pre Quote
12-04-2011 , 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by acdawg712
Why aren't you jamming pre? Don't think you have any other choice with your stack size.

As played, the pot is 119 (the extra 5 obv doesn't count) and you have to call 50. You are getting 2.4:1 so you need about 29% If you range him as only QQ+, then it's fold. But if you include JJ+ and AK (which you should), then it's a snap as you'll have 36% ish. Not to mention he could have AQ, TT, 99 etc knowing you are on your last money.
I guess this pretty much answers my question. I guess I am having a hard time believing that TT or 99 would be in MP2's range given he 4-bets me All-In. But I suppose it could be? Why would 99 or TT 4-bet me all in here though?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollieeeee
What he said. 3b/fold is terrible here w/ your stack size.
Yeah it would be. But Villain's stack size was about $150 at the start of the hand. After I 3-bet, there really isn't enough in his stack to induce other player's at the table to call my raise. I think what I did was fine provided I get it all-in on the flop no matter what. Also, not every player would call my $82 All-In 3-bet with AK or AQ in a 1/2 game. Wouldn't I be narrowing the range of hands that might call me to almost exclusively QQ+ or PPs in the least? With possibly an occasional call from AK or AQ? I don't think I would see 99 or TT call me if I raised all-in pre. But they probably would not call my 3-bet either.
Short Stack with JJ facing 4-Bet All-In Raise Pre Quote
12-04-2011 , 06:10 PM
Jamming here is stupid. We are never getting worse to call or better to fold. We have a great hand in position, let's try to get some value.
Short Stack with JJ facing 4-Bet All-In Raise Pre Quote
12-04-2011 , 07:56 PM
I'd rather call the $12 here than jam preflop.

As played, tough situation. You're almost always crushed, but have $32 of an $82 stack invested. Not much you can do other than call and pray that you hold the rare times he has AK, or get lucky against a bigger pair.

If you're nearly done playing, both time-wise and monetarily, than I could understand WANTING to fold so you can continue playing, but you'd be leaving yourself $52 to play with - not an enjoyable situation at all.
Short Stack with JJ facing 4-Bet All-In Raise Pre Quote
12-04-2011 , 08:03 PM
You can't bet 32, only to fold JJ with $50 left and ~115 in the pot. I prefer shoving first, easy call now.

PS even though you don't want to shortstack, while shortstacking you should still employ a shortstacking strategy.
Short Stack with JJ facing 4-Bet All-In Raise Pre Quote
12-04-2011 , 08:28 PM
I think with your stack size his range is considerable wider.
Short Stack with JJ facing 4-Bet All-In Raise Pre Quote
12-04-2011 , 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yarbles
I think with your stack size his range is considerable wider.
Considerably wider if I jam pre or once it's 4-bet back to me?
Short Stack with JJ facing 4-Bet All-In Raise Pre Quote
12-04-2011 , 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by *******
Considerably wider if I jam pre or once it's 4-bet back to me?
I'd figure he meant when it gets 4-bet back to you. Player like this might see that you're short and not mind as much going to war with AQo or TT
Short Stack with JJ facing 4-Bet All-In Raise Pre Quote
12-05-2011 , 03:53 AM
You have to call if he has AK in his range (which is probably does).

Your stack size is what got you in this mess. 3betting with 30-50bb's is super tough because we can't fold to 4 bets, and if we get to the flop we cant fold on flops like Q 9 7ss when we have 1010/JJ.
Short Stack with JJ facing 4-Bet All-In Raise Pre Quote
12-05-2011 , 05:42 AM
No way you can fold, you clearly have the odds to call. Also 3betting without knowing what to do against a 4bet (did you really expect to get flatted here or were you hoping just to get a fold?) is a big mistake.
Short Stack with JJ facing 4-Bet All-In Raise Pre Quote

      
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