I've heard u want 15x what your calling in order for set mining to be ok. This was a spot where I couldn't really figure out if it was ok to do so because I didn't have that much behind but it was multi way with everyone having me covered.
On my phone so format may suck
10 handed table 300 effective 1/3 w a 6 straddle
Reads:
Villain 1 (sb) young headphones and hat, defended my ep raise w q10 off for 5x hu flopped q109 check called 2/3 psb, checked thru 5 turn led 1/3 pot on blank river. Thinks he is a pretty amazing player.
villain 2 (straddle) young black played with him before, known to overplay hands and pay off light. I have played w him 2-3 times although I doubt he remembers me. Probably worst player at the table.
V3 was involved but I can't recall position.

Hero is late 20s white, drinking a beer and stuck a little just added on 100. Definitely not playing my a game.
Hero dealt 55 limps for 6 in mp. I know 50 bbs deep I should be tightening my range this is probably bad.
V1 and v3 limp for 6, straddle makes it 28. I'm first to act and I call here, he has a big hand very often here. I'm hoping it goes multi way and luckily it does. My question is if I am 50% sure there will be 4 to the flop can I profitably set mine?

Pot is now 112 and I have 270 behind.
If it goes heads up I'm probably calling one barrel on safe flops bc ak very likely will shut down. Seems like an unnecessary hand really but I am not sure.

Not closing the action I fold...try to isolate ur emotions from the game

Limping here without knowing 100% the pot wont be raised (or close to that) is really no goot IMO.

^ +1 to above post.

I know it sounds crazy, but unless we're super deep, limping a small pair from EP is usually a losing play.

Think about it this way: how often are you winning a pot when you miss your set on the flop?

When we play a small pair from late position, we have the option to steal the pot post-flop if we're shown weakness. From early position, we very rarely have the option to steal, unless it checks around on the flop and we decide to lead out on turn.

^ for that reason it's fairly easy to rep it against any moderately competent player a couple times in a session at low stakes. You miss, then c/r almost any flop where villain's range is TPish and they will fold.

I agree with u guys. I have a sickening feeling every time I fold a small pair for a limp and end up flopping a would be set. Most u guys just throw em away without a second thought?

Actually... personally I will typically play any pair from any position, unless I have a specific reason to fold. But this is assuming that:

1. I'm relatively deep; 100BB+
2. I believe I have a post-flop edge over my opponents
2a. I believe I can steal the pot post-flop somewhat often when I miss my set

However, this is my own style. It's not a tight style. If you're looking to play a tighter, more conservative game, then you should fold hands like 44 from UTG.

limping from EP hoping it limps around and you hit your set is "meh", okay I guess.

being the FIRST to call the raise is just all kinds of bad.

We don't want to play "hope" poker. We don't won't to be in the habit of making INCORRECT plays and "hoping" that things work out.

And your plan is awful. You are planning on calling low ball flops because you are going to put your villain on AK which is what all the donks do. Never mind that there is 3 or 4 way action....

Your plan is basically to lose as much money as you can "hoping" that you win????

I'm going to say something that at first glance will seem trivial and you will be overly defensive as well as dismissive. You will roll your eyes and say to yourself, "I know this already". No, no you don't which is why I'm telling you what I'm going to tell you.


You need to think about the above. If you honestly and truly understood the above, then you would have snap folded. The fact that you didn't snap fold, tells me you don't properly understand its importance or significance...

think on it.

I think this hand has more depth than just pp and setmining...
OP subconsciously wants villain to bust, he wants to make a bad decision so that it creates a calling chain that ends up with someone busting villain.
You might "without even knowing it" wanna prove that he is not "a pretty amazing player."
I am just trying to point this out because I have been writing down my emotions during the game lately and sometimes I will do my best to prove that some villain is bad

Man, this is/was one of my biggest ego related leaks. Some aggro big mouth villain would be at the table making moves against the fish and donks all the while talking poker and letting everyone know just how awesome he is. A part of me wants to "show" this villain that I'm better than he is and I'd end up putting myself in horrid -EV situations against this villain trying to "outplay" him... What makes it worse is I'd have V's range nailed down and then i'd level myself into thinking I could get him to fold...

And of course, he wouldn't fold because at heart he is just as big a donk as those he berates and he'd level himself into calling, I'd go busto while he'd continue mouthing off how brillaint he is which would tilt me even further, i'd reload, and repeat the cycle...

Whenever one of these players hits the table and starts to get on my nerves, I have a specific soundtrack/self-therapy session on my Andriod that I pop up and listen to to ensure I don't monkey tilt and spew

Which soundtrack? Please!

There's a saying in music that mediocre players copy, great players steal.

My point is that the idea of finding something to help you resist tilting in a situation is a great idea. That's a good thing to steal. Deciding that listening to the exact same music as dgiharris listens to is not a good idea. Copying what he listens to isn't going to help you. Suppose he likes relaxing to music that you hate. It won't make you a better player.

It is bit like many coaches in poker. I know of several who's approach is, "I win at X level. Play exactly like I tell you and you'll win, too." A good coach explains why you're making mistakes and works with you on a method to close that leak.

^^ meh I was kinda curious though

^ +1

You want 10x stacks to set mine..FYI 15 x for 1 gappers but whatever, if your Rollin gappers, you know it's more about position...

This is mathmatically little off. If he flipped over AA and he told you he would always go all in on the flop you would need about 12 to 1. When you hit a set, he is going to also over set you by the river bettor then 1 out of 8 times and get a little extra from hitting flushes and straights....

His range makes up a large part of the consideration as well. If he plays wide and cbets a lot...guess what your going to have to fold you pair even if its ahead on most flops, and if you hit he not going to have hit hard enough often enough to pay you off...

15 to one is kind of a good approximation, Thinking players use the 10 to 20 rule, 10th of the stack if you have position and believe you can steel some times.....20th if his range is wide, and he may not go broke with tptk or overpair hands. Somewhere between for players between this.

OOP many players like a little more.

15 to 1 for one gappers, you better have control over your opponent...25 to 1 is more like the default, maybe a bit less against big bet loose players, or against weak tights if you steel enough..

My anti tilt music is my Pandora "Enya" playlist.

Its a bunch of soft flowing Celtic, New Age, and even some African music. Very soothing, the type of music you usually get a massage to.

I also have several "anti tilt" recordings that i've made where I self diagnose myself and explain to myself why I hate those types of players so much (because I used to be them) and how my ego gets me in trouble vs these types of villains and discussing the exact mistakes I tend to make against these players and to not make those mistakes and how I need to relax, trust the math and trust my game and that if I do that everything will work out in the end and to just ignore them...

Then I pop in the music and relax. Here are a couple of songs from my "calm down" playlist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObGYFInWrU0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR7Cp4jQFZ8

Once i've calmed down and my 3rd eye is open then slowly ramp back up a little bit with some Hikaru Utada

(yes, this is Japanese and no I don't speak Japanese)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWoJLdXJt0E

After this, I'm usually back in the right mindset.

While I'm on the subject, I've learned to use music to help put me in the proper mindset. Fighting tilt is just one aspect, the other aspect is when I get tiny testicles and become scared money.

When this happens, I throw on some music and ramp up to what I think of as fighting mode. My primary fight songs are

Requim for a Dream
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTCrpCCiouc

Nas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQbCC8S-ErE

Evanesence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YxaaGgTQYM

The Heavy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVzvRsl4rEM

And if I get too amped and need to come down a bit then I listen to a little Pearl Jam, Mariah Carey, or Stevie Wonder...

Oh, I should also mention that I only listen to music with one ear bud in and low volume so I don't miss what's going on at the table.

Lastly, I probably only listen to music 10% - 25% of the time and I use it moreso to just manage my mood and mindset. If I listen to it too much I tend to auto-pilot.

I'm not sure if this will help you, all I know is that it works for me. Like Venice alluded to, copying tit-for-tat probably won't help you all that much. The main take away is just finding music that you like and using it to manage and adjust your mood and mindset.

good luck

I think I lose about €50 / hour when I listen to music!

Music just tends to give me FPS.

Try folding pre listening to this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7QzxYAjgNc