Hey guys.

I'll explain the situation:

$25 buy in local tournament

5 left
Top 4 paid
I have 7.5BB in SB
Average stack about 9-10bb (don't ask, just the way this tournament is late on, structure is poor)

Anyway, I pick up A10o in the SB. The BB is very well known to me, would have played thousands of hands together live before. He is a nit, doesn't understand proper calling/defend ranges very well.

I shove my short stack and get snapped off my KK. I understand this is a cooler spot on the bubble for money.

What I am asking is, is there an argument to just raise/fold this hand against this particular player? He is going to fold his junk hands to a min raise here and he is going to never reshove on me with a worse hand than my holding.

I think I've made the correct play here just wanna get others opinions! Cheers!



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Assuming it's folded to us in sb, I'd be open shoving much wider than Ax in this spot.

I'd be open shoving 100% of my range here if you're both similar stacks, and be expecting to just print chips here if he understands proper ICM (meaning he only calls with AA)

E/ you made the correct play, raise folding is NEVER an option with 10bb. (Correct me if I'm wrong) and saying he will never restive with worse is definitely not true, a good reg will be reshoving scs, Kxs any ace, any pp etc

Put him in a tough spot with a shove and make him make a mistake by calling you. (Yes it was a mistake for him to call KK there if your open shoving range is as tight as A10+)

Not a mistake imo. Guess it depends on how many chips he has and payouts, though

Yes you can raise/fold but you better have him on a certain range avg stack does not matter as much as actual stack so those need to be stated, especially if they are short.

Plus you better hope the guy is not a thinking nit and realize you are raise folding.

If was raise folding here I would raise all my callable hands here as well.

If they start shipping wide you'll need to call a lot and you better know what you can and cant defend

If he starts calling and not raising you will need to start shipping

Raise folding 7.5bb is so villain specific that if you underestimate his shove range you can make a big mistake as well as his call range

You have thousands of hands with him, we do not, so break down his call and raise range

Then break down his postflop game, will he fold middle pair if you shove flop? Will he fold a mid/small PP? What will he do if we check to him?

You should shove AT here everyday, and be very excited about it. You should shove a LOT worse hands than AT here, especially against described nit villain. Unlucky he had KK.

I don't know what stacks and payouts are, but I wouldn't be surprised if shoving ATC here is profitable. Certainly shoving way lighter than AT is +EV.

Minraising your entire raising range in this spot is not an unreasonable approach against nitty Villains, but you really have to have spot-on reads for it to be better than shoving. Raise/folding when they jam A9/KQ/77 is gross. Plus, if you start doing this regularly, anyone who plays with you frequently will pick up on it. Once they start adjusting, it quickly becomes unprofitable.

Top 4 paid, they're literally on the bubble, KK is an icm fold here iirc

I don't want to pick on you too much, but you're horribly wrong.

OP should not have posted in this in the live cash section as most don't play MTTs even remotely well. Let alone the bubble.

If I was SB, I'd be shipping anywhere from 80%-100% of my hands, depending on the adustment, and if I was BB and knew my SB was shipping even remotely standard.

I'd call 55+, A6o+ A3s+, KTo+,QTs+,K8s+

Depending on stack sizes, if somebody is really short, you'll have to adjust.

Folding KK here is absolutely horrible. It depends on the specific payout structure and stack sizes of the players, but the times you should fold aren't that common.

Now this is where I agree with you.

I couldn't find a low stakes MTT section in here so thought I'd try here.

Now my calling range is very similar to yours stated. But I am a higher level of player than the players I am regularly playing against. These players play stupid tight when playing FTs. He is more along the lines of only calling A8s+, A10o, 77+ and maybe KQ. That is it.

That is why I asked if just min raising is possibly a play I could make, he shoves, I can just fold as he NEVER does it with a worse hand than mine. That's my thoughts anyway.


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Interesting the different responses here. Majority are saying that shoving A10o is 100% the correct play here.

I don't think you're grasping the idea of the players I am playing against.

They NEVER shove or call with a worse hand than this, I know it is stupid tight, but that's the way it is. They just don't. That is why I believe that a min raise or a 2.1-2.1x raise could be appropriate


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So he folds A9s to a jam?

Even if you 2.2x and he jams, you're pretty much committed amd have odds to call unless he's jamming only AA/AK/KK

Shoving here is massively +EV and pretty standard.

But that is what I'm saying, raising 2.2x and then he shoves I can just fold.

It is the same result as if I shove and he calls. As soon as he called I knew I was behind with A10o, it was automatic


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Why would you raise ever over min.

People don't min raise enough and fold to nit shoves because they often start getting repopped wider than you originally thought.

Let's assume you min raise and your BB jams A8s+ ATo+ KQs, TT+, this is just a general example, I think you'll get shipped on wider.

You can now call what %? I bet a lot will not know what % they can call

I'll give you a hint, it's not ATo

Your calling range on the bubble can't be that loose, is be calling that if we weren't on the bubble, or the next payout isn't a big jump. But when only 4 places get paid you have to let a shorty bust before GII with 55 and only a 55% favourite.

55% of the time you double up and gain extra chips (no monetary value)
45% of the time you lose, get knocked out of the tournament and make $0 losing your buy in

You don't understand ICM, that's clear.

Pretty much proves my point, wrong section to ask.


You want to know how to have a low ROI % in SNGs or MTTs, too tight.

@Turtol, if SB is shoving 75%+, why do you think you can call AA but no KK?

You should realize, that's ridiculous. If everyone is equal stack, it does not alter your calling range a whole lot, if there is a big discrepancy in stack sizes for example UTG was 2bb, yes, you can't call like 20%, you'd probably be calling 66+ A8o+ KJo+ A5s+ KTs+.

You can adjust this range further if you think SB is not shoving as wide as he should.


In a scenario of 2bb UITG 8.5bb CO 9bb BTN 7.5bb SB and 10bb BB

Who has the widest shove range in that spot? SB or BTN?

Again this is going to change entirely on the structure. Your range can be significantly wider in BTN than SB and your SB can be significantly wider than your BTN.

Payouts matter.

Sometimes the bubble is so ridiculous because the payout is super top heavy and you should not treat the bubble as such as you would normally.

There are times even when 10bb in BB and SB is 7.5 and UTG is 2bb that in BB you should be calling his shoves almost 30%.

In the end the thread is in the wrong section and OP has provided not enough detail on payout %'s + stack sizes to ever give an exact answer regarding calling shoves, push range, etc..

But in general he should be shoving really wide, and obviously he knows ATo is one of those hands.

The question is about min-raising and yes, it's very good if you have a very solid understanding of opponents range as well as adjusting dynamics from your new min-raise strategy.

Okay, I'll help out a little

$25 buy in

1st - $245 + $50 ticket
2nd - $180
3rd - $135
4th - $85

5 players left (rough stack counts here)
Blinds: 20,000/40,000

UTG: 320,000 (8bb)
CO: 240,000 (6bb)
BTN: 650,000 (16bb)
Hero: 300,000 (7.5bb)
Villain: 380,000 (9.5bb)

That is basically the run down.

Now as I've mentioned, the BB is a super sick nit. I understand any 2 here can be most likely profitable and in the future against this particular opponent I will probably continue to shove my entire range. But what I am asking is, is there an argument to making it 90,000 here with these middling hands and then folding when he shoves? I know that when he shoves he is NEVER, I mean EVER, going to have a worse hand than mine. I think a 2.1-2.1x raise is just as effective against this particular opponent.

I wanted to post on here as there are a lot of good thinking poker minds on here. I wanted to know if there was ever an argument to raising 2.2x off of a 7bb stack against the super nit!



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being as short stack as you was the only option was to fold or shove...AT yes all day long shove...hell AX is a shove as well as any pair and possibly any Kx

Don't listen to people saying it's shove or fold. In general yes, but there will be opponents you will have the option to min/fold.

They are rare, but you will find them and if you only shove you're going to print money, but you also are missing value by not min-raising.

Don't raise 2.2 it's min or jam. It's stupid to go anything over min. Why would you do that?

This is exactly what I have been trying to figure out. Min/fold has got to have an argument here


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Your payouts is something like

42%
26%
20%
12%

If your button was any good. He'd push 100% and could experiment with other min-raising if the right villains are behind.

If SB was good, he'd push 100% vs NIT.

If your BB was good, vs a standard push range of like 85%.

He'd be calling A7o+ A3s+ 55+ KTo+ QTs+ K9s+.

A fun situation is when your BTN jams 100%, what can you in SB call. This is a spot a lot of bad reg players make mistakes in.

Min-raising has an argument, I gave it to you.

You have to be able to adjust very quickly if dynamics change. It becomes tough when they get a good run of cards and are not giving off any live tells and you mistake that for being wider than they normally are.