1/2$ NLHE, Sunday night, full ring

Hero: 600$, white, reg. Made about 400$ on one hand where multiple Vs couldnt fold to PSB on flop and turn, they miss, I scoop. Ive been ABC TAG this session, sitting at the table waiting to get into hands with one young european clubhead dude who has about 600$ also.

V: 375$, white, reg. good friend of mine. He is a respected and frequent poster in LLSNL, competent and thinking player who shifts between 1/2 and 2/5. When he drinks, he plays 1/2. He is alil drunk, but not sloppy drunk where he is just spewing all crazy style. his C-bet percentage is about 75%.

History between V and Hero is endless. We 'grew up' playing against each other at these 1/2 tables...both respected eachother's game. He went on to play 2/5 full time within the last year. I play 4-5 times a month, but he still knows I have game. He and I both have called super light with deep stacks, slowplayed, fastplayed, shoved/bluffed in every imaginable situation. We have played a ton against each other and we both know it makes us each a better player.

In this session the only hand of note is this: we are about 150bb deep, UTG nit limps, V opens to 12, hero calls OTB with AQ, nit calls.
Nit checks to V, who bets 20 on a 7x73x flop...nit folds. Turn is 2, V leads about 35 I think, I call, purely thinking I have the best had as AQ high...River is an A, V checks and Hero bets small, like 45 I think. V folds after about a minute.

The Hand:
Folds to V in cutoff who makes it 8$. This is his standard raise with no limpers in front and him in LP. Ive seen him do this with AA all the way down to absolute garbage (10-3, Q5). He gets away with it because he just outplays people post flop. Hero calls OTB with 85. Heads up.

The Flop: 864 (19$)
V bets 16. Hero calls again thinking I simply have the best hand. If I am behind, I still believe I have any 8,5,7 as outs. SInce V c-bets a high %, Im fine letting him barrel once more.

The Turn: 8642 (51$)
I cant remember if it was exactly the 2 but it was a 2 or 3 and not a . V leads 35$. Hero calls, still believing I have the best hand.

The river: 86428 (121$)
V leads 52$. Can we raise/fold here? if so, how big? What are we expecting to get called by? How strong do I look with this line?

Are you ever bluffing that river? I'd just flat as played. You have like the worst kicker and he might not call with worse

Grunch:

He gets away with it because people play passively against him with garbage like 85s. If you are going to punish him for this, you need to raise him without the goods at some point in this hand. Or you could just fold and wait for a better spot. You certainly aren't playing this for hand value, and there's not going to be too much money made here by bluffing (because the pot is so small).

Basically, when you "outplay" him and take a pot away from him, you'll win a small pot. But if you make a mistake, you'll be spewing to him in a bigger pot. Let it go.

River bet by him seems pretty weak, but I don't think he's 3 barreling light here very often. I see the only hands he calls a raise with is maybe AA-JJ, and even then he puts you on 8x a large majority of the time. I'd probably just call here.

Just flat...also fold/3b pre...but mostly fold.

Fold preflop...easier money to be made against other players. If you're playing for fun to outplay your buddy occasionally...by all means play the hand. If you're wanting to play well and make consistent money...don't get in the habit of playing 85suited against strong opponents...just -EV.

As played though...flat the river. You're only getting called by a better hand if you raise IMO.

I'm surprised that this isn't a snap raise OTR...

All 8's are in your range.

All boats are in your range.

(poorly played) Flushes are in your range.

(poorly played) Straights are in your range.

Hell yeah I'm raising this. Especially against a Villain with history. I'm raising here like 100% of the time.

Hero's cards are completely meaningless.

Raise/fold to $125.

I'm probably playing like 75% of hands in this spot.

CO opens small and we're OTB, likely to see a flop HU. We have tons of history against villain.

This kind of game is fun. I'm never giving up these spots.

We're absolutely bluffing that river... We can represent a busted flush draw that doesn't want to give up. Seems totally standard given history with V.

I'm still just calling, though. Villain is polarized, which means we're either WA or WB (he three barreled).

I do not think this Villain is polarized. He can easily be 3barreling for thin value with a hand we now beat.

The real questions are, is his value range that we beat bigger than his value range that beats us? (I think he would level himself into calling sometimes with a worse hand.) And, if we raise here, can he 3bet bluff?

LOL... if he's a 2+2'r, we should assume he might.

Though I don't think it means we can't raise here.

Then the question becomes, should we raise/fold or raise/call... Player dependent.

Of course not. If we know we can raise and then profitably call, we can raise/call. But if we know we have to fold to a 3bet, then the question is, is there enough that calls so that raising is still worth it.

And if we don't know either way, then we probably should just call.

can you estimate what range you get to the river here with?
with endless history id expect to have an idea of how often you can have slowplays (nfd/boats) and what sort of air you get to the river with (do you raise AcXx beforehand?)-also what his perception of these will be.

any idea of what range he bets the river with using this sizing? kinda looks like a bunch of overpairs targeting calls from 6x/4x, and then also some nuttier hands and some air so he can jam if we raise? i guess a call does better against a range like this that is well developed, but i would expect that with the amount of history you say you have, you are in the best position to determine what ranges you get to the river with and how each player would expect the other to play them.

im not sure hes gonna b/c with a hand you beat, and i think you see a lot more b/f and b/jam here, so i would probably either call or jam myself, depending on the answers to the questions above.

If V is ranging our river raises as this then raising the bottom of our range is terrible as V would be an idiot to call with worse.

It's really odd for us to be bluffing this river.