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River sizing w/ maniac image: 1/2 NL, second-nut flush on paired, four-flush board River sizing w/ maniac image: 1/2 NL, second-nut flush on paired, four-flush board

11-20-2014 , 03:43 PM
I'm looking for river sizing advice specifically, but all comments on the hand are welcome.

Hero is a young white male, computery looking, with a winning-but-FoS image. When this hand took place, I had been at the table for two hours. It started out loose-passive pre with tiny bets on most streets and lots of showdowns. After half an hour I started raising almost every straddled hand and 3betting more preflop. Now the game is wide open and everyone is adjusting in different ways. I've shown down almost nothing and observant players are now attempting to trap and/or play back at me. The game is seven-handed.

Villain is a middle-aged hobbyist whose strategy is known to me. He is conservative and doesn't seem to gamble much. He's observant, but he isn't a good hand reader. He plays a bland, value-oriented ABC game with all the standard semi-losing reg tendendencies that come from poor hand reading and discomfort with deep stacks (value bets too small, doesn't value bet thinly enough, doesn't 3bet or 4bet preflop with anything but nut hands, doesn't attack capped ranges on scary boards when deep, etc.). I suspect this villain is capable of trapping preflop with strong hands, especially when I'm straddling. Players like him are also more likely to counter my LAG style with trapping and bluffcatching, rather than rebluffing.


Blinds: 1/2, I straddle my button to 4,

BTN/STR: Me (650) QQ
MP: Hobbyist (850)

Four limps, I raise to 29, folds to Hobbyist, who calls

(70) K 9 6

Hobbyist checks, I bet 45, Hobbyist contemplates briefly then calls

(160) K 9 6 - 8

Hobbyist checks, I check

(160) K 9 6 - 8 - K

Hobbyist checks, I...
River sizing w/ maniac image: 1/2 NL, second-nut flush on paired, four-flush board Quote
11-20-2014 , 03:52 PM
All in
River sizing w/ maniac image: 1/2 NL, second-nut flush on paired, four-flush board Quote
11-20-2014 , 04:03 PM
You should be betting this turn with your image. As played bet large and fold to a raise. All in would be terrible. Villain is only calling that with better and may even fold better.
River sizing w/ maniac image: 1/2 NL, second-nut flush on paired, four-flush board Quote
11-20-2014 , 04:04 PM
going for thin one 1/3- 1/2 hopefully eek out call from stubborn K or middling spade. really not many hands you beat tho. he can definitely play ace of spades this way..
River sizing w/ maniac image: 1/2 NL, second-nut flush on paired, four-flush board Quote
11-20-2014 , 04:47 PM
Lol at allin. That is absurd. I am betting 120 on this river. He will likely pay off with any spade, given our image. Obvious fold to a raise, but I dont think he has the ace very often given how he's played it.
River sizing w/ maniac image: 1/2 NL, second-nut flush on paired, four-flush board Quote
11-20-2014 , 05:31 PM
I like all in with maniac image and villain who wants to bluff catch. We don't rep very much at all. Very stupid line.

He can have a ton of random spades or Kx he'll be tempted to bluff catch with.
River sizing w/ maniac image: 1/2 NL, second-nut flush on paired, four-flush board Quote
11-20-2014 , 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by citamgine
going for thin one 1/3- 1/2 hopefully eek out call from stubborn K or middling spade. really not many hands you beat tho. he can definitely play ace of spades this way..
We have a maniac image...he's probably calling the flop with any pair and/or any spade. And he's going to be hard pressed to fold to our FOS line with our image. Gotta bet at least closer to pot.
River sizing w/ maniac image: 1/2 NL, second-nut flush on paired, four-flush board Quote
11-20-2014 , 05:41 PM
You realize we have gotten 74 of our 650 effective into the pot by the river. Now you want to shove it 575 into a 160 pot.
River sizing w/ maniac image: 1/2 NL, second-nut flush on paired, four-flush board Quote
11-20-2014 , 05:47 PM
Bet/Fold $120 easy game. ABC player is probably just calling even with the Ace of spades and is only raising with FH or occasionally the ace of spades. Rec players that play against maniacs go into total showdown shells and he could even just call with an underfull here because he can never range you given your image the last thing he wants to do is raise and face an all in and get 'coolered by the maniac'. I'm betting for thin value when he tries to bluff catch with medium spades and might get value-owned by something like 99/66/88/AK or the ace of spades.

When a rec player reraises at maniac its the uber-nuts, so this is a thin bet/fold $120 I think is fine.
River sizing w/ maniac image: 1/2 NL, second-nut flush on paired, four-flush board Quote
11-20-2014 , 06:52 PM
Don't straddle the button, least of all with a maniac image. You have the privilege of seeing how 4/6 opponents play their hands before it gets to you, why would you blow that by blindly committing to 2bbs to the pot? This also effectively cuts the stacks in half. Just don't do it. Don't confuse the fact that your positional advantage means that you'll be able to get most of your investment back with positive expected value; it's just less negative value.

Anyway, onto the hand: the protection value of betting the turn is so strong here that you should be very sure in the increased value you get on the river in order to do it. This isn't to say that you have to bet the turn; only to point out that while you might get lighter call downs on the river, you're missing a chance to charge sets and two pairs a premium to make their boat.

As played, this is an ABC/textbook player who sees bets in their absolute terms instead of in proportion to the pot, and we need fairly junky hands to call for this to be a good vbet. I think all three of those factors should point you in the right direction for what to do with your river sizing.
River sizing w/ maniac image: 1/2 NL, second-nut flush on paired, four-flush board Quote

      
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