i have a 2021 m340

Sabr has a supercar

yea the 340 qualifies as a ok car, def not a super car

OMFG, car dealerships can F right off! Just tell me the damned out the door price. I don't mind that you're trying to make a profit, but when you hide it in BS fees like a mandatory "vehicle protection plan," or "nitrogen-filled tires," you just lost a sale.

Agree. I love mine, it’s got hustle but the M50 will destroy it.

Garick, didn't know if you saw this article, but thought you would be interested, if you're not already involved.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...one-can-decode

Yeah, I'm part of that "decoding" movement. As you can imagine, it gets very controversial, with different interpreters yelling about how they have it right and everyone else is doing it wrong. I have a friend who teaches a style based on the Fiore manual that is mentioned in there, and I do a lot of stuff from Talhoffer's longsword chapters.

But when it comes down to it, it's like trying to learn karate from one of those 1960s books with text and pictures of people demonstrating the moves. Except that there's only one picture per move, and the language has changed since the book was written, so no one really know exactly how they did it, and there's a lot of experimentation involved. It's not as completely mysterious as the article makes it sound, though.

Pre-delivery inspection - which dealers get reimbursed by the manufacturer for.
Nitrogen tire filling - air is 70% already. Eff the last 30.
etching
protection plans
BS
BS
BS

there's lots of reasons why people HATE car dealers. It's why I only buy once a decade+.

counterpoint.....

diminishing customer dissatisfaction/increase in negative attitudes towards categories is often in direct correlation to customers trying to bottom out prices in those categories

eg airline travel, insurance, used car purchases, builders etc etc etc. People pick the cheapest option and then get really shitty when stuff isn't included or the product isn't as good as you hoped or it's late or w/e

everyone wants the person who brings them their food in a restaurant to make a ton of ****ing money but they want to grind the guy renovating their kitchen into the dust

Pay peanuts. Get monkeys.

I fully support the get what you pay for adage; however, there is a difference in honest disclosure. If you're unnecessarily making the process complex in order to get me to pay more, then you can fkc right off.

^ This.

If your hotel room is $200 a night, tell me it is $200 a night, no issue. Don't tell me it's $160 a night and then say "plus a $40 resort fee."

If the car is $40K, sell the car for $40K, don't tell me it's $37.5K, plus a $1.5K "protection plan," $500 for anti-theft "phantom footprint," $400 for you to make a copy of the contract, and $100 for nitrogen-filled tires.

I do agree with that and at some point each business needs to find a way to communicate the value in better service and then to charge for that.

But hidden costs of various kinds (inc nefarious as they seem to be here) are a consequence of there being giant pressure from the market to reduce prices to a place where businesses can't sustain a workable margin and need to find other ways of charging to stay in business

obvs there are lots of shonky small businesses too.

you live in the wrong country then. In most countries around the world the room price is the actual price

In the US these days it seems to be

+ resort fee
+ cleaning fee
+ you're still expected to tip your cleaners extra or you're a MOTHERUFKCINGCHEAPASS
+ tax
+ venue fees in certain bars and restaurants on the property
+ I'm sure there's probably a compulsory service charge in the near future

Yeah, I don't mind the tax part, as it is government imposed rather than something sneaky the business adds, but the rest of that stuff is just ridic.

Garick, did you tell the dealer specifically that you would've been interested, but the bullshit is keeping you out? Not much you can do, I suspect; it'll be like that everywhere. But it won't change unless people start giving feedback.

Of course, that's a change in theory. In reality, it will only get worse.

I haven't done so yet, as I just went in asking for out the door prices, and really only dug into the line items when I got home. If I reengage with this dealer, I'll certainly give them that feedback. I might even if I never reengage, so they know why they lost the sale.

I'm going to a different dealer today, and I pre-warned the POC about how much that sort of thing pisses me off.

So we bought a new car a few months ago. I let the wife do all the negotiating cuz I can't stand that stuff. I'm basically just the quiet stoic looking muscle that backs her up on anything when needed.

Anyhoo, we get thru the painful salesman process and have the total cost decided to a T minus the government rebates, yada yada yada. So now we're sitting with the finance person and as she is going over the final numbers, my wife notices something.

"Hey, what's this $455?" she asks.

"Oh, um, that's the wheel locks. We install those on every car we sell."

My wife. Loses. It. "What, are you going to slip in a charge for the ****ing windshield wipers too?"

We got a bunch of free gas cards for that one.

GmywifeisamuchbetternegotiatorthanIamG

I have never purchased a new vehicle, but I sat back and watched SPC buy her new tacoma. All of the back and forth was done on the line (thank you rob farha) so she had an exact number that made sense compared natnl averages etc. We went to the dealership together and did the paperwork which was painless and fast. THey were kind enuf to offer various upselling which she politely declined. There was no financing and we were out the door lickity split.

When we bought our car, I'd don't think I've ever dealt with 3 more odd people in my life.

The salesman was a young guy that was super nice and... pretty energetic, to say the least. And he was also just a little... off. His favourite answer to our questions was an enthusiastic "1000 percent!". Almost certain you have to be a little off (a lot off?) to be a car salesman.

The finance lady asked as us what we were going to do with our current car. My wife said she was going to sell it privately as the used car market is obviously in our favour and we weren't going to get a good trade-in deal here at the dealership. So then the finance lady says she knows a young woman who is looking for a car, a really nice girl, going through a tough time... cancer (W. T. F.?), and starts telling us this sob story and how she could really use a good deal on a used car (Um? Like we're a charity now?). Then asks for our number and car info so she can pass it on to her. Sigh. Weird.

And then finally the insurance guy. Whole meeting with him I felt like he was workshopping a stand-up comedy routine. Keep the day job, ldo.

Gasurprisingamountofhumansarethenutlow,imoG

Maybe G should use gobbledygeek's good cop/bad cop thing and have Mrs. G. go off on these schmucks.

I got pretty fortunate that I found the Subie "In Transit". This means that it was coming for new inventory. I looked at kbb.com to see what an Outback with its features averaged for, told them that's what I was comfortable with paying. While I went to the bank to get a cashier's check, they rolled it off the truck and cleaned it up. Talked to finance guy for ~20 minutes, out the door.

I walk onto a new car lot and am immediately tagged as a 'fish' (prolly same as the tables).

Nut low worst experiences ever. I'll drive my current car into the ground before I try to buy another one. Helps that I love driving my Fiesta ST.

Never been out in under 4 hours, even with financing pre-arranged, knowing exactly what I want and will pay. I get hives just thinking about it.

I'm actually thinking about going the Costco route next time.

For Feely - this poast is ski related so I am putting it in spoilers so as not to offend you or your summertime activities

That was pretty much my experience buying a Tacoma as well. I was in contact with several dealerships, told them exactly which truck on their lot I was interested in, let them know I had several options, and told them best offer wins. My only regret is that I've heard since then that I might have gotten better offers if they had believed I was going to finance rather than pay in full, not sure if true or not.

Welcome back, slim.

AzO1, samesies. I wonder if dealers know how many potential sales they lose making the process so painful. Sure, they may make a bit more on average per sale, but I'd rather undergo a root canal than deal with that ish, and I'm clearly not alone.