Same Jim Brown, fw.

you touched my two sports. coach and official in lacrosse and I was an IH runner in college. Moses was at another level for sure.

IH is a beautiful race to watch. Watching a true technician is art.


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and he ran 19.93 at 17 before when you'd think he could have afforded hgh or other PEDs

Pretty sure Wilt kept scoring even after his career.

GcluelessscoringnoobG

I heard he scored over 20,000

(Might qualify as world class)

I’ve been drinking and haz the slowz- please break this down.


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the fact that he was so fast at such a young age...(19.93 at 17 years of age for 200m) almost certainly before he could have afforded the cost of high quality PEDs points to his subsequent achievements being more likely to be done without the need for PEDs

The truth is that Wilt is actually kind of overrated, and might not be the best player of his era (Russell). It goes beyond simple ring counting. The reason Wilt's statistical dominance is overrated is based on deeper statistical analysis which shows that his massive scoring didn't correlate with winning.

Basketball is a team game and it doesn't matter who does the scoring. Wilt, early in his career, took a massive amount of shots, to the detriment of his team's overall offensive efficiency. His teams were statistically not that impressive. Later in his career, he was coached to take fewer shots, and that's when he had far more team success because by drastically lowering his shot attempts he improved his efficiency (by cutting out his more difficult attempts) and set up his team for more easy baskets, leading to increased offensive efficiency for the team.

Wilt was a dominant rebounder but all rebounding statistics from his era are massively inflated due to league-wide high pace and low field goal percentage. Every team in the 60's ran up and down the court and took (and missed) a lot of shots. Dennis Rodman is actually the greatest rebounder of all-time, and it's not close.

Bill Russell on the other hand, was the defensive anchor of a Celtics dynasty that held opponents to several points per game below their average, every single season. Before the 3-point era, center defense was the single most important thing in the game, as every attack focused on trying to score as close to the basket as possible.

TLDR but Russell > Wilt.

Outside of Scottie Pippen, Russell is probably the most overrated player in any sport that's ever been played on the planet earth and the above post serves as further proof of that.

I do agree that Rodman is the greatest rebounder of all time though.

Russell overrated is a casual-fan take.

Russell is statistically the best defender of all-time by a mile. It's not a coincidence that the Celtics won almost every year when Russell played. And it didn't matter much who they had around him. Russell's greatness has actually led to several other Celtics being overrated (because they all became HoFers when they're weren't that special).

Thank you kind sir, we are in agreement


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Sabr is correct.

Wilt was a freak specimen, but Russell was the better player.


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The statistical argument for Russell:

The 1956 Celtics were the 6th best defense in the NBA, out of 8 teams. They had a winning record but had never won a championship.

The next season, 1957, with a rookie Bill Russell, they were the best defense in the NBA and won the championship.

In 1958, they were once again the #1 defense and won the championship. 1959? Same story.

In 1960, the Celtics were again the #1 defense, but Russell got injured during the finals, leading to the Celtics only loss in the finals in a 10-year period from 1957 to 1966. Bob Pettit of the Hawks dominated once Russell wasn't on the floor to stop him.

For the next 6 seasons, until 1966, the Celtics were the #1 defense every single year and won the title every single year. The 1964 Celtics are statistically the most dominant defensive team of all-time, as they complied a 59-21 record despite having the worst offense in the league! They scored just 90.1 points per 100 possessions, which ranked 9th out of 9 teams, but Russell's dominant defensive play led to their opponents scoring just 83.8 points per 100 possessions. That is dominance.

After Wilt's 76ers won the championship in 1967 (this was the first year Wilt drastically reduced his scoring which led to more team success) an old player-coach Russell won two more titles in 1968 and 1969, beating arguably more talented Lakers teams.

Hey King Spew - PCMR has been open 6 days - we are 6 for 6. Been getting out for furst chair and skiing for a couple o hours before the crowds build. We nailed our reservations for next week and got em all in. Evidently non focused people are not able to get reservations and are reasonably pissed.

U guys been skiing much?
how have the crowds been?
Have u had issues with reservations in Co?

to be clear, I wasn't arguing Wilt was better at all, but that the statistical dominance he had over that 3-4 year stretch was the best comparable to Bradman's statistical dominance over his 20 year career.

it's hard to argue against winning 11 titles in 13 years even if he was only playing 7-9 teams for a lot of that period. basketball championships do follow the best player more often than other team sports but counting 'wins' in a team game can quickly become a truly vacuous exercise

Yes. It's weird how I always agree with everything you say. I feel bad though because I think half the time it's in jest.

Most reports are anecdotal, and he only played lacrosse in college. But it's the same Jim Brown

Just imagine someone with the athleticism to lead the NFL in rushing for 9 years on a field with 18-22 year old kids at Syracuse

Aleksandr Karelin, John Smith and Dan Gable.

Karelin was truly terrifying. I was there in 2000 when he lost. the dude was so ****ing big and scary. incredible that a guy with that physique, coming from that country in that era never tested positive

also can add Steve Redgrave who won rowing gold in 5 consecutive Olympics which has never been done before and will be very difficult to beat

Karelin was the first athlete that came to my mind as well.

at the time of the Sydney Olympic final he was 882-1

And that 1 was a 1 point fluke at the very end of his career.

Thought Sabr beat me to it, but you did. I saw that one live.

'Pecan Pie, the Rock doesn't like that very much'
a swirlie

Rather has an authenticated email proving George Washington chopped down that tree.

Figures you mod a politard board.


Olympic Wrestling
Badminton (never actually spelled it)
Ping Pong
Pong and other esports
Rodeo
shotput/discuss/javelin
shooting post-Annie Oakley



Unless you have measuring tape

But Bill Russell got the most perfect 10s.

GOAT Sabr post aside from private game hostesses.

I'm guessing those are real wrestlers.

Yeah they were pretty good.

John Smith doesn't have as quite an impressive a record and Karelin or Gable as he lost 2 matches in college and 5 internationally. But he won 6 world championships and 2 olympic golds back to back using one move that everyone knew was coming and still couldn't do anything about it.

Gable won the '72 Olympics without a single point scored against him.

I recall Gable was pretty good coach too.

I actually shouldn't have put wrestling on the list since I could have named Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar.

Replace it with Judo.