Hero is a white backpack wearing youth. Been playing tight, but double barreled a QJ2ss7x2x board and couldn't beat Q4dd after checking back river (hand was played against V1).

V1 is a talkative late 20s looking asian guy. Limp calling a huge range of hands, calling flop and turn very light, but has played rivers straightforward. Talks a lot in hands and has been honest with everything he has said.

V2 mid 20s white guy. Only been at the table for about an hour, but has played passively, limp called multiple times pre and cold called a couple hands, yet to raise.

V1 limps UTG+1, Hero is in MP and raises QQsh to 18. V2 calls from the BB and V1 calls as well.

Flop comes down K98ddd and both Villains check to Hero. Is this a cbet? Why or why not?

Yuck! What a sick flop. I guess I b/f to try to realize my equity in most circumstances, but these guys likely flat most of their continuing ranges. We have SDV, and these guys are passive, so I just check it back and try to get to a cheap showdown.

Stack sizes?

Against two passives with wide ranges pre, I'm b/f'ing for value. They will call you with a lot of worse hands.

Btw, in your context hand, that's not a good board to double barrel. The turn changed nothing and there are a bunch of draws in your perceived range. A loose villain is always calling w any Q there. Even if you're playing tight, your demographic image will always put draws in your range on wet boards.

About 140bb eff.

Yeah definitely regret the 2nd barrel in that hand, burning money against hat type of player. As soon as the hand ended I realized it was a mistake. Got to get used to these passive live players!

Check back flop. Maybe bet the turn if it's a brick and everyone checks to you.

Bet flop for value. We can get worse to call from V1. Same on turn depending on which v calls. Same otr. We have the best hand most of the times here, so charge those fds.

Lol this is not a flop bet.

This is definitely a flop bet.

Can you please say why sir? I'm pretty confused about this hand and would like to hear your thoughts about it.

If they are passive enough to check call, and never semi bluff raise you, then I think this is leaned toward a bet. You can get value from tons of 9's, and maybe dry diamond draws. I would take a b/f line on the flop, and try to get this checked through pending scary turn and river cards.

even very passive villains are not going to be calling with 9s or 8s on a monotone K high board. and even at 140bb deep, if we bet flop $30-35 and get only one call, we are at 2 SPR. a follow-up bet on the turn sets us up to play for stacks, which is not the best idea with 2nd pair. checking behind flop and evaluating turn in the best play imo. betting non A, K, or diamond turns if checked to.

Eh I don't know. I worry that I would be value-owning myself by betting here. I tend to be pretty aggro IP, and people tend to expect me to take a swipe at this flop. If they are checking for the purposes of check-raising me, I prefer to disappoint them. If they are checking because they are scared, they will let you get to showdown cheaply enough.

+1

I was in the cbet camp until I remembered you wrote that you got caught bluffing by one of the people in the hand AND giving up by the river.

Against more aggressive players, I'd probably bet/fold. If these V's are passive enough, then I'd just check. Bet the turn on a blank if it checks through.

Isn't this more of a reason to bet since you'll get looked up lighter? We aren't betting as a bluff here, we're betting for value.

I feel the exact opposite of this. Against aggressive players I'm b/c or checking to pot control since I don't want to get semi bluff check raised off my hand, against passives I'm b/f for value since they rarely bluff check raise.


Everyone advocating a check back is losing value. These villains as described combined with how they perceive hero means they are calling a cbet with a TON of hands we beat. Every combo of T/J/Q w a is calling, plus all A and most 9T/J9/Q9/JT. I'm not saying we're going to get 3 streets here, but not betting the flop is a leak because you let worse hands that will call a flop bet have a chance at turning a better hand for free.

cbet 25 expecting at least one of them to float (and liking it). I am not check folding here. We have queens in position. If someone has a king they will probably call your turn bet, and if another connecting card falls, we can still pot control.

are you giving up because there is an over card on the flop? that would be mubsy wouldnt it

You are checking behind here because you have super bad equity against a huge range of hands that they would call with, and we aren't gunna turn queens into a bluff here.

Definitely not true. V1 would be calling with any 9, some 8s depending on kicker, and any Ad or Qd.

Also, I'm betting like zero turns here when I get called. Flop seems to me like the only street I can get any value as well as protect my equity in the pot.

Who said I was giving up?

Hero cbets $25, V2 calls, V1 quickly c/r to 125, Hero and V2 fold.

Show me a range calc where I have 'super bad equity' here please.

Think about what hands are going to call/raise you, what cards might hit the turn and river, and how many cards you have to improve your hand vs. how many cards will make your hand worse. Cbetting is burning money.

that was for the people saying they will one and done the flop then give up against someone who is knows to float light.

also I wouldnt check the flop, letting someone with pocket tens pot the turn then we lose control and have to fold?

The king is in our range more than a limp calling range or a call behind range.

gh

Show some calculations, don't just ask general questions and then say that the play is burning money, prove it to me.

So what line are you suggesting here? A check fold? If you're c/f this spot, it's too weak. If you are c/c this hand, it's even worse. b/f is the best line here against passive opponents, and probably betting zero turns expecting it to be checked through.

Also, pot controlling is extremely overrated. You should be able to define a range on top of the value benefits of your b/f line against these opponents.