Hi all,

5/10, Hero opens QQ utg and the bb defends. We are $800 eff. V is 55 y/o dude, reg. A little on looser side.

($65): 467r. X, $35, x/r $150, flat.

Turn ($415): 7. $225, flat.

River ($865): 8. Jams our last $400.

Thanks,
DT

Fold flop. Definitely fold turn. For sure fold river.

Did the turn bring in a backdoor flush draw?

The turn pairing the top card is somewhat concerning. I would definitely fold river; there's an argument for folding turn.

BB can defend wide to a 3x preflop size. That means he has a lot of hands which hit the flop, but you can't fold yet just because the check-raise is largish (and it isn't, really)

I think I just fold the flop - yeh its highly exploitable but I don't think many are exploiting.

Check the flop

This is an interesting spot and line and runout thanks for posting.
Was there a plan for specific cards when calling the flop c/r? Or was it to go wheeee and hope he reveals some exploit or checks and gives up some percentage of the time on the turn and river? i'm assuming you're narrowing his range to pair + draw and draw hands, with some value that has you 95/5 (sets, straights) or 80/20 two pair at best. Your equity versus 89 or even nut gutters is what it is and you won't have visibility unless you are paying attention to those cards and how he bets when big money goes in as an exploit.
Flop needs to be a bet and a check at certain frequencies. If you just check 100% of the time here with value regs who are paying attention at 5/10 will notice and will C/R your bluffy bets the other times.
You can fold flop and be Ok with the result and notice if he is doing this exploitatively versus other players.
You can also include some floats on flop as you did where you now fold on this turn card and other specific draw and pair + draw completing turn cards.
All of your frequencies should be player dependent and at the level people are noticing and adjusting to your play
A final thought is 3bing flop wasn't considered. Not saying it is an appropriate line but you can have strong hands here as well at this SPR

It's also possible you played this hand well. If he double barrels at extremely high frequency but only triple barrels with value you can call turn and fold river as played.

Yes

You aren't improving

So if you are going to call down you might as well crai on flop

a c/r on that flop from 35 to 150 when draws shouldn't be in his range too much as played is at least two pair, and when we decide to call the c/r, we can't really fold to a hp bet ott so we're making a decision on that flop for our stack prett much. I would just fold otf.

I would also raise more pre to 4x or even 5x depending on how the tables playing. 3x is just a pot sweetener from UTG, we don't wanna turn a good hand into a set mine with multiple callers (or a few callers and a squeezer taking advantage).

Check back range on flop.

the issue with betting the flop is oop is supposed to lead a huge amount of the time and i dont think many people are doing that, possible but unlikley 55 yr old reg is doing that. so just need to be hyper careful about following sims for this particular board as a result. i see ur hand as a mix in a 75bb sim when bb is supposed to be leading ~50% so probably we want to bet the flop like idk 15-20% of the time w this hand class for like 1/3. obviously dont b/f its like the worlds most obvious board for bb to xr w straight draws. turn also looks like a call. river is a mix in sim leaning towards fold and i think thats fine u just want to make sure that your range isnt over whelmingly made up of overpairs here in this line (which you regulate by watching your flop betting frequency). river u still beat like 98 / t8, id think random bare gutters give up that turn

You know what is easier and very close in EV compared with memorizing some stuff like this betting 15-20% of the time for X sizing for a million different hands in real life. Checking this flop 100% of the time vs anyone but the weakest tightest nits or special maniacs playing 100% of hands.

i think its an ok simplification but you gotta realize that people aren't going to read a post by you and decide king larry suggested an action with absolutely nothing backing it up, pack it up its over this is the right answer.

even if you were right 100% of the time you post, no one has any real way of knowing that, and also it doesn't actually help them in game unless they can pause mid hand and call you and ask for advice whenever they don't know what to do

They dont have to. But a few might and it will be a perfectly ok play when they make it and its easy to remember. Your 15% of the time bet solver solution on the other hand, not a single person reading this thread is going to read that and apply it as you stated it.

i get that. i think your solution is good and easily implementable and a good heuristic. i think it helps people to show my work but maybe im wrong on that.

You are right.

I would love to know from the people who arent going to implement it what good it does to see you solve a calculus problem when 2+2 = 4 gives you an answer thats pretty close.

“Larry you might even be right about 2+2 = 4, but my vastly superior poker solver knowledge would not let me not tell the two plus two forums what is thoretically proven. And my opinion on why every other answer is always second best“

You ever watch chess players at the highest levels play? Most of them get out of theory as fast as possible. Solvers have solved chess. The best players try not to play like robot solvers. Go watch a hikaru bullet arena stream sometime if you want to see one of the smartest people on the planet in real time rarely using much theory.

how does it actually help someone to post a thread and have a bunch of people offer various lines of what they'd do with no insight behind them in the thread? they have no idea who you are, if you're right, and even if you are which other hands in your range take different lines and how relevant thats going to be to other situations they come across. then they have to sift through 10 people of wildly divergent (but not disclosed) skill levels doing the same thing. i get thats better than nothing but why does it bother you so much that i tell people what the "right" answer is?

even in this thread there doesn't seem to be much of any concensus and by far the most agreed upon action - b/f the flop, just isn't right at all.

Because the right answer is not real life. Black and white on your solver is almost always grey in the real world. Because for the solver to be “correct” as in the only answer then the human inputting all the node locks needs to also be 100% correct on those reads on what the opponents range is on what they are actually playing on every street.

Or…….maybe someone comes sees this thread and sees five posters say range check this flop and its really easy to apply. But according to you, the solver god, its only an alright solution. Teach us more.

i dont understand. he posted a hand and i told him what the solver would do and how i would adjust. i dont get why that would trigger you or why you would respond to me at all let alone like this lol.

re the nodelocking, if you have a strong read on what unknown midstakes regs in undisclosed areas are doing and places where we can exploit them, then by all means share. otherwise playing a balanced strategy is going to be by far the best bet.

I bet/flatted,flatted, folded river. Thank you for the interesting strat talk. Always fun to see the "gto versus explo" debate arise.

You understand perfectly. You regurgitate mewmorized lines from a computer and claim to everyone that that is the correct way to play. And over and over again tell the forum why your complex lines meant to not be exploitable are the best in the world and any other solution is not as worthy because it is proven in a bubble vs a perfect opponent. Its complete and utter nonsense. One day maybe you will use your brain and figure out the world is not so black and white. There are often many solutions and for most people the best solution is going to be a simple one that works. I dont need to have an engineer tell my carpenter the exact placement of every nail.

I would share that these midstakes unknown players are not playing the gto optimal game your hero, supersolver 64 thinks they should be and how it derives its theory. I think I watched Hikaru crush one of the best 99.9% of chess players in the world last night while at the same time telling his audience that he and Naroditzky and Carlsen are not Stockfish and will never be stockfish or aspire to be stockfish because they are humans and stockfish is a computer chess engine. These players Who beat other humans at chess even at the highest levels a mindboggling percentage of the time. He deviates from chess “preflop charts” all the time to get his oppenents out of mind numbingly boring theorty heavy games. Chooses moves on intuition, and it is a much much more complex game than poker.

Like at this point your shilling for GTO Wizard is so comical it would not surprise me if they pay you to be some anonymous dude to come on here and post to steer two or three or 10 people a week to their monthly subscription product. Go watch Alvin Teaches Poker. His GTO knowledge is so much higher than yours and then he constantly comes back to the fact that you should be taking eploitative lines and simple lines instead of trying to maximize every last piece of EV through GTO play. Lol.

look. we're getting to a point where i think it's best if we both just mute each other. it seems like you're looking for a fight with me in every thread. here, OP posted a hand and i told him what the solver would do and how that would impact how i would play the spot. whether you dont believe in computers, think you're too good for them, think none of the experts follow strategy, or whatever your obsession with arguing about them is, no one was talking to you. if you don't want to implement the solution into your game all you really had to do was ignore my post, its not even your hand.

it must be a wonderful feeling to know the absolute right action in every single spot. honestly i aspire to have that level of knowledge or confidence in my game. i don't though, so when i review hands i almost always look at what a computer would do so i have some kind of starting point. regardless you don't need to throw a temper tantrum or start an argument every time i post something.

edit: am going to actually just mute you for the sake of the entire forum

Good for you bud. You are an idiot.

surely the reason we post and reply in hand histories is to study a situation, learn from it and help ourselves play better....not to win an argument vs or gain a consensus from strangers?

Larry, you're making an absolute fool of yourself. It's weird how you don't seem to see that. Please do us all a favour and just let it go.