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q10ss In The BB w/ straddle ahead q10ss In The BB w/ straddle ahead

12-05-2012 , 06:59 PM
Really don't like the way I played this hand but in thinking about it, other than folding pre I'm not sure what else I could have done but that is why i'm posting since maybe I'm missing something obvious.

This is a live 2/5 game at Borgata. I've been at the table only for about 2 hours and have not played many hands-won a small pot with AA but didnt showdown. Not sure how they view me at this point other than an ABC weekend rec player. I bought in for $500, now sitting $600.

Villain in this hand is a early 50's gent. Although I would not call him good or competent by any means, he's not totally clueless-He's raked a couple pots without showing down-i've overhead him talk about various rooms he's played in and so forth. I have not seen him turn over any hands yet so hard to really know if he's capable of getting out of line. Villain Has just about $600 also.

Hero (BB) Q10

UTG Straddle $10, Villain $25, BTN Calls, SB Calls, Hero Calls, Straddle Calls.

Flop ($125)

AJ2

Check to V who bets $65 all fold to Hero who calls, Straddle folds.

Turn ($255)

3

Hero checks, V bets 175, Hero?
q10ss In The BB w/ straddle ahead Quote
12-05-2012 , 09:01 PM
Fold we aren't getting paid off if we hit, and shoving doesn't seem to gain much fold equity when he appears to be reppint AK minimally.

Calling twice and leading a spade river will get a lot of folds.
q10ss In The BB w/ straddle ahead Quote
12-05-2012 , 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by i4betfold
Fold we aren't getting paid off if we hit, and shoving doesn't seem to gain much fold equity when he appears to be reppint AK minimally.

Calling twice and leading a spade river will get a lot of folds.
I agree you have to fold here. Shoving is only way to get the implied odds here. I don't see any FE for shoving so its not a good idea IMO. Now lets say turn brought a k or j or even paired your cards I personally think shoving over the top is an option but I don't ever see just calling here an option
q10ss In The BB w/ straddle ahead Quote
12-06-2012 , 02:40 AM
looks like a fold as played

you can fold pre for sure

you can also play this more aggressively on the flop
q10ss In The BB w/ straddle ahead Quote
12-06-2012 , 09:12 AM
Ew. Fold pre. How much of your $20 do you think you´re getting back on average? I´d say less than 0.

You have no reads, you have no image. How are you going to make money with the hand? Is there a plan for the hand (e.g. have we seen a player unable to let go of top pair postflop?). I seriously think this is a leak when we get involved with mediocre holdings OOP multiway. This could be (barely) profitable to call this even from the button, but even, without good reads it´s better just to fold.

On the flop, we have a raising hand, not a calling hand. We have good pot equity against any hand he could have, and a raise will put big pressure on a wide part of that range. The folds we get here are where we make the profit, not in checkcalling, hoping we get set the right price, hitting and hoping to get paid. The trouble is we don´t really know enough about the villain, but in a vacuum this is a big raise, $300 or even just shove. We want him to fold as many of his TP hands as possible.
q10ss In The BB w/ straddle ahead Quote
12-06-2012 , 09:47 AM
thanks-I do admit that I normally would fold pre in this spot most of the time-i think i was a bit frustrated with being pretty card dead for the first 2 hours of the game aside from the small AA pot and one other "orphan pot" i picked up and everyone in the hand had over over 100BB but anyway.

As played I did end up folding the turn and then considered if I should have raised the flop to say 175 ish....
q10ss In The BB w/ straddle ahead Quote
12-06-2012 , 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czech Rays
Ew. Fold pre. How much of your $20 do you think you´re getting back on average? I´d say less than 0.

You have no reads, you have no image. How are you going to make money with the hand? Is there a plan for the hand (e.g. have we seen a player unable to let go of top pair postflop?). I seriously think this is a leak when we get involved with mediocre holdings OOP multiway. This could be (barely) profitable to call this even from the button, but even, without good reads it´s better just to fold.

On the flop, we have a raising hand, not a calling hand. We have good pot equity against any hand he could have, and a raise will put big pressure on a wide part of that range. The folds we get here are where we make the profit, not in checkcalling, hoping we get set the right price, hitting and hoping to get paid. The trouble is we don´t really know enough about the villain, but in a vacuum this is a big raise, $300 or even just shove. We want him to fold as many of his TP hands as possible.
This. It's going to be tough for V to call the flop here with AT type of stuff.
q10ss In The BB w/ straddle ahead Quote
12-06-2012 , 02:20 PM
good feedback thanks guys
q10ss In The BB w/ straddle ahead Quote
12-06-2012 , 02:36 PM
Grunch;
If we have any sort of fold equity(He sometimes fold AK, AQ, AT - If he his range is wider than Ax) then we should be raising this flop Ainec. The only thing we're worried about is him having a set. Even then we still have 34% equity.

If we think we have absolutely no FE then just call and fold turn I guess.
q10ss In The BB w/ straddle ahead Quote
12-06-2012 , 04:04 PM
Pre is fine...this hand plays pretty well muti way though it looks like you are in BB??? Makes it harder

Yeah I think if you don't c/r this flop you have to give up on turn.
q10ss In The BB w/ straddle ahead Quote
12-06-2012 , 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PardoG
thanks-I do admit that I normally would fold pre in this spot most of the time-i think i was a bit frustrated with being pretty card dead for the first 2 hours of the game aside from the small AA pot and one other "orphan pot" i picked up and everyone in the hand had over over 100BB but anyway.

As played I did end up folding the turn and then considered if I should have raised the flop to say 175 ish....
If you ck-raise the flop, you shld lead the turn, IMO. Were you willing to lead the turn, esp after a low diamond hits? Probably not.

Another option (although most here would agree it's probably not the best option) would have been to lead the turn AP (to take the initiative), and I'm assuming V would have been confused with this line (assuming V has an Ace here). The only hands with which V is raising a turn bet are A J, A 2 (unlikely based on V description, altho Ad2d would be great hand to checkraise you with) J J, A A, or 2 2 (also unlikely).

So instead of calling $175 OOP, you lead with say $75 or $90 (keeping the pot smallish), confuse the V, and he just calls. Or maybe he raises and you just fold. At worst you are 22.7% to win on turn, so you do have outs, just not very many.
q10ss In The BB w/ straddle ahead Quote
12-06-2012 , 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus2012
If you ck-raise the flop, you shld lead the turn, IMO. Were you willing to lead the turn, esp after a low diamond hits? Probably not.

Another option (although most here would agree it's probably not the best option) would have been to lead the turn AP (to take the initiative), and I'm assuming V would have been confused with this line (assuming V has an Ace here). The only hands with which V is raising a turn bet are A J, A 2 (unlikely based on V description, altho Ad2d would be great hand to checkraise you with) J J, A A, or 2 2 (also unlikely).

So instead of calling $175 OOP, you lead with say $75 or $90 (keeping the pot smallish), confuse the V, and he just calls. Or maybe he raises and you just fold. At worst you are 22.7% to win on turn, so you do have outs, just not very many.
I hate leading turn as played. You rep nothing but 22 or I guess 45 and I doubt villain is folding anything he is betting flop with.
q10ss In The BB w/ straddle ahead Quote
12-06-2012 , 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwslim69
I hate leading turn as played. You rep nothing but 22 or I guess 45 and I doubt villain is folding anything he is betting flop with.
Yeah I was just inventing a way to keep the pot smaller on the turn. I don't think villain is folding turn either.

AP I would fold turn, just for the record.
q10ss In The BB w/ straddle ahead Quote
12-06-2012 , 10:04 PM
The more I think about this the more I like a raise to $200 OTF. If he shoves, we can call with odds that are on the ugly side of acceptable, and if he just calls, we've massively improved the chances that we can check the turn and get him to check it through for a free card. Considering we checked the turn, we also have good chances of getting a call on our river bet if we flush or straight. But yeah, as played, gotta fold dat turn.
q10ss In The BB w/ straddle ahead Quote
12-06-2012 , 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus2012
So instead of calling $175 OOP, you lead with say $75 or $90 (keeping the pot smallish), confuse the V, and he just calls. Or maybe he raises and you just fold. At worst you are 22.7% to win on turn, so you do have outs, just not very many.
If you are going to go with a blocking bet, I think you should probably be looking at something more like $120-$140.

To me, a bet here looks polarized between hands that picked up a diamond draw and hands that are worried villain picked up a diamond draw. I'm not sure if other people see it that way though, so I'm not sure if leading the turn tells the story that you would want it to.
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