So the trend live is to raise smaller preflop kinda like online games. I find that for me I prefer bigger raises to hey less people in the pot. Now I know the pots may be smaller bit post flop I win more hands which is good for my mental well being at a live table. I don't like folding for hours and u do not enjoy raising small to win only 2 out if 10 pots but hopefully those pots are bigger. I prefer to win more pots as it keeps me mentally in the game. Is this correct thinking? I mean whar ever works for each person is gonna be something different. But overall u think this is a good strategy ?

More pots won = more rake paid.
You'd have to be very good to overcome the rake at most low stakes live games playing a bunch of pots per hour.

1. Your reasoning is pretty bad. There may be valid reasons for raising smaller you didn't list any of them though.

2. What you described simply isn't true. I can still raise to $20 preflop and get like callers in most games.

Im not lowering my preflop raise amount to fit the table. I always open to 4BBs and I make it 5-6BB is there are limpers. I go even higher if Im in the blinds after limpers.

If people dont want to call my raises because they only want to call 3BB raises, I will start raising more and more hands until they do.

If u read most literature now they say preferred strategy is to raise smaller to get more callers so the pots are bigger. I am saying 30 pots are gonna get played per hour no matter what. If u win more pots u pay more rake, but if u don't win pots u pay no rake. What would u rather do ? I prefer to win pots. If u don't u can't win money. My point was say i raise 20% of my hands to $8 and get 6 callers on average. Well I am not going to win many pots with 7 people going to a flop and i won't have to cuz the pot will be $55 or so on the flop so if u bet and win u can win less and still make money. I prefer to raise 30% of hands to maybe $14 preflop get 2 or 3 callers and win more often even tho on average those pots are smaller.

If a good strategy is raising X% to Y sizing, raising wider than X% to a bigger than Y sizing is bad/very easy to exploit (even accidentaly).

Explain please. Thank you

I prefer to raise my pots to 20-30 preflop (in a 1/2 game), get 2 to 3 callers preflop, take down a nice pot when they fold to my cbet.

OK so let's assume raising 20% to $8 is a proven good strategy. Why is it better than raising 25% to $8? Because the hands in the 20-25% range lose money, obviously. By raising 30% to $14 you're giving your opponents worse odds, meaning they'll play tighter, meaning not only are the 20-30% hands (still) unprofitable, but also some of the top 20% hands.

Note that I'm not saying raising 20% to $8 is the end all be all preflop strategy, just that it can't be good and raising 30% to $14 also be good. If you think raising 20% to $8 is good, but want to raise bigger, you have to raise a tighter range.

Good point. Now if I know I am superior to players in any pot post flop where I get less then 3 callers do u think its better to raise bigger to narrow the field? My whole issue is this. Online 6 max u see flops mostly heads up or 3 handed which I beleive I do well in. I don't do well in 7 handed flop games, never have. My strength in any pkker game is short handed play. U don't care what the game is I am much stronger in a short handed or table where less people are seeing flops.

Welcome to LLSNL son. You'd best be learning and right quick. I've been at tables this week where 10bb raises were going 5 ways.

I hear ya. I hate games like that

Why? Those tables are glorious. If it makes you unconfortable to play a 4 way pot for stacks right now just mark it as something to study and improve because you're going to run into those tables a lot. That's where the most money is made.

And people say the games in S.Florida are soft? Ive seen a game like that once and it was after midnight on a Sat night.

This is my whole point. I don't make the most money in these games. I have many session la behind me. I make more money if I am play lying more pots vs less people. When 5or more see a flop u just have to hit hands to win, when 2 or 3 see flops I can win with out hitting hands which most often I will happen. How often will u really make a good enough hand to play for stacks 7 handed? I am just more comfortable playing poker then hoping I hit a hand

Thats fine. Play whatever suits your game the best. Forget what books say. If you play best against 1-2 players than make you raises a little bigger and find the right size to get 2 callers.

Would you rather win a $30 pot 70% of the time or a $100 pot 30% of the time.

Big multiway pots are actually a lot easier to play. And I say humbug to referring to something you're not good at as "not real poker." That's just a silly emotional justification.

Mike is right that you should play to your strengths. What you shouldn't do though is avoid more profitable situations because you don't like them or aren't as good at them. Just learn and get better at them.

I know what you're saying, and I pretty much agree with your point. Too often at LLSNL play deteriorates into "bingo poker" where someone raises (smallish) and 4-5 callers come along and the flop comes out and it's like "let's see who got lucky". There is no real skill here. And in the long run we all get lucky evenly so we're just trading chips with a rake going on. It's not "real poker".

Heads up or 2-3 handed is more skill poker, and like you said it's much better for you mentally as it keeps your head in the game and allows you to be way more creative. 4-5-6 handed poker we pretty much just have to play our cards.

Some ideas:
Yeah, raise more preflop to thin the fields, really to whatever people are calling. I strongly believe that in LLSNL preflop raises should not be a function of the blinds but more a function of stack sizes and WHAT WILL PEOPLE CALL.

Avoid joining in these raise-call-fests and instead squeeze 3bet more, especially with your unpaired big cards -say AJ/AT KQ-KT even QJ/QT JT (I assume we're already 3betting AK AQ in these games) also 3bet your Axs and Kxs. 3bet your pairs 77+. Join in the call-fest with small pairs and SC's only.

Just play fewer hands and let the rest of the table play bingo poker, avoid the temptation to play unsuited connectors, etc just cause you see others win a big pot with them when they hit bingo.

It's not bingo if you you make $100 when you hit bingo and everybody else only makes $50.

The bigger the preflop raise is the better you will perform. If you figure to play a hand you think that hand has value. Why not play it for more money in way much bigger pots? Why some fish Mikey Mouse raise pre for 2.5bb is a mystery to me.

Play hands that can handle 3bet and 4bet
In the back (late position) in volume pots you can play speculative hands for cheap.
But in general only play 3bets and 4bets hands. If you 3bet make sure you can handle a 4bet too. It doesn’t take a huge amount of statistical analysis to realise that 3betting makes more money than cold-calling. The only reason we don’t 3bet our entire continuing range preflop is that our opponents might adjust and begin to exploit us, when they realise we are 3betting too aggressively. The idea is to get away with 3betting as much as possible without our opponents being able to make exploitative adjustments. To put it simply, we need to incorporate 3betting into our strategy because it can provide a significant boost to our winrate.

Make sure every opponent with medium stack gets committed if he dare to raise against you and you decide to play your hand. Bet in such a way as the opponent has to make a choice between folding or shoving. Make sure he understands you'll be calling any shove. Put him to a decision for all his stack. Don't let get away with 5xbb that you call. Never cold-call or even just simple call a 3bet. Make it 4bet. it makes no difference to what cards flop or if you guys make or miss the hands. Raise hell!

See u think people tend to copy online games. In those games people raise minimum alot but it gets alot of folds. Live u won't get the folds as often so I think it's a bad plan live. I will be trying the 3bet squeeze thing more often to see how it goes.

You can mostly expect to get huge multiway pots if you start squeezing. I only squeeze with my value range. Otherwise it's 3-4 ways wih <PSB remaining and you're back to your dreaded "bingo."

The trick is to size your raise to get he number of callers you want. i'm not disagreeing that the sizing needs to be larger, but because you're scared of multiway pots and winning less often.

It probably mostly only applies to 1|2 games where standard raise sizes are bigger. Back in my Michigan 1|2 games it would happen all the time. I've even seen a raised family pot (10-handed) for $17. In a good 2|5 game 5x/6x raises will often go 4-5 ways, IME.

Yup. I haven't played a lot of 2/5 since my bank roll apocalypse last year but when I was, it was not uncommon to play >$100 pots pre to a single raise.

Also, Mike plays primarily in the day. Give it 6 hrs Mike and I suspect you'll see it too.

Ok I'll argue the small side.
I think, especially in LLSNL, people's preflop play hinges largely on whether they like their hand and if it looks to be a big pot and not so much on how much the raise is, until you get to large preflop raises.

I have seen numerous games where 1 hand someone opens early to $14 and gets 5 callers, then the next hand someone opens to $7 and gets 2 callers. Good luck figuring out what raise size drives people out.

The domino effect can cancel out any raise sizing considerations, people see a few people in a pot they want to get in hoping to get lucky, whether it's 7 or 15 PF.

Theoretically we play better post flop so why blow people off medium/weak strength hands that will pay us off if they hit TP?

This is especially true in EP, lots of people want to raise bigger up front to discourage callers, but often you will get those callers, playing bigger pots OOP sucks.

Let's say you have AKo UTG you have 3 options.
Raise to 7/10/14. I don't think any size is going to drastically change someone's mind, at least not by a lot. Let's say we get 3 callers.
Before even making up a flop, in a 4 way pot with AK, UTG, what pot size do you prefer? 28/40/56?

In smaller pots it is cheaper to bluff, cheaper to peel, cheaper to float, cheaper to bluff catch and harder to be put in really gross spots.

If you are a better player the logic runs the deeper you are the better, by raising too much preflop we negate some of that advantage.

Players play streets from best to worst mostly in the following order: PF->FLOP->TURN->RIVER, by driving much of the action to PF/FLOP, you are moving commitment decisions to earlier in the hand where it is less of a mistake for them.