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Polarized range on river Polarized range on river

01-13-2015 , 10:55 PM
I was playing in Vegas over the weekend and came across a few hands that reminded me of hand where a villian doesnt really show strength until the river and where is range is very polarized.

Here is one example from the Venetian 1/2. Villian is an unknown middle aged hippy looking dude. Has been pretty quite/passive so far but has only been at the table for less than an hour. V is 2 seats to Heros right and open raises in cutoff to $7 and Hero defends from SB with KcQc. BB who is pretty loose also calls and H has both V's covered $200+ effective.

Flop = K63 with one diamond
H and BB check and V c/bets $15.
H calls. BB folds.
Turn 2d

Check, check

River 9d

Hero bets $20 for value
V raises $25 more to $45 total.

To me, this is either a backfoor flush or I am best.
Is my hand ever good enough here to call?

I see this kind of spot other times where villians dont show aggression untl the river and I often pay off if their line doesnt make much sense and the board is pretty dry/safe. Even though I think it might be a leak more times than not.
Polarized range on river Quote
01-13-2015 , 11:14 PM
4.5:1. Call should break even over long haul. Would call. We get info out of it too.
Polarized range on river Quote
01-13-2015 , 11:17 PM
check-raise flop 45.
as played call.
Polarized range on river Quote
01-13-2015 , 11:26 PM
Call 25 to win around 100
Polarized range on river Quote
01-13-2015 , 11:49 PM
Why did we check the turn?

What were we hoping to flop?

As played, we gotta call, we might actually be good since we did check the turn.
Polarized range on river Quote
01-14-2015 , 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozsr
Why did we check the turn?
Probably because donk betting turns with TPGK on a dry board is one of those classic "Let's get action from better hands and often fold out hands that were drawing dead/nearly dead" scenarios. If villain wants to double barrel his AK/AQ/KJ or turn his TT/JJ into a bluff, why are we looking to prevent that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozsr
What were we hoping to flop?
Decent top pairs (i.e. although we're dominated by AK/AQ, a late position player can/should be opening hands like KJ/KT/QJ/QT), OESDs, flush draws, combo draws. We don't have position, but we do have a hand that can flop well fairly often.
Polarized range on river Quote
01-14-2015 , 02:33 AM
Pre is kinda meh OOP against a tight passive.

I play hand the same way. I guess we have to call river because of odds but I think it's really close. It's highly unlikely he's bluffing here. I expect to get shown a flush or a weird slow play (AA, AK, KK) almost always.
Polarized range on river Quote
01-14-2015 , 03:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 27offsuit
check-raise flop 45.
as played call.
please enlighten us what line should we take if we x/r flop. seems like with the stack sizes next is a shove OTT.

i would have played the same way and easily call the river.
Polarized range on river Quote
01-14-2015 , 03:07 AM
I would have bet three streets with a TPGK flop. When I played in Vegas, I made big money off of hands like that. You charge them every street for those draws they love to chase. The hippie probably raised suited connectors and came alive on a backdoor flush but he would not have stayed in if you had value bet your pair, and if by some reason he did, even better.
Polarized range on river Quote
01-14-2015 , 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjpure
I often pay off if their line doesnt make much sense and the board is pretty dry/safe.
In LLSNL, if you instamuck every time a villain raises the river or c/r the river, you will save a lot of money. Don't even try to make sense of their line. This is why b/f'ing the river is so profitable at this level. V's aren't raising you without a better hand.

If you you're playing online or higher stakes live, then bluff-raises actually do come into play. You know the only people who will bluff raise you in $1/2 on the river. They're the crazy LAG guys who get off on bluffing people.

No passive player is ever raising the river in $1/2 without a better hand. I think there's several good ways to play this particular hand, but generally speaking, fold to ALL river aggressive with one pair hands. Don't even think about it. It should be like a Pavlovian response. "Oh, V showed aggression on the river? I fold". Don't try to figure out if he's bluffing. Don't try to figure out his line. Just fold.
Polarized range on river Quote
01-14-2015 , 09:12 AM
fold preflop. Against the tight passive player King Queen does not rate well.

as played, call we are getting good odds at 4-1.

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Polarized range on river Quote
01-14-2015 , 09:28 AM
Raise pf. If you're going to play a potentially dominated hand oop, you want to have at least the initiative.

As played, the river bet sizing is terrible. It opens you up to having to think about a bluff raise. If you had bet $35, you could easily treat this as a b/f situation.
Polarized range on river Quote
01-14-2015 , 03:15 PM
Small 3bet pre to $18 since you should be ahead of a CO's $7 opening range and from the description it sounds like he'll play fit or fold postflop if both of you miss. 3betting also isolates us against CO instead of risking BB to call and forcing us to play more straightforward postflop with bad relative position, but if BB is bad postflop then flatting is better to invite him in and give him an opportunity to make mistakes postflop.

Since we don't expect this player type to double barrel air I think leading turn small for $20 is better both for protection and to prevent getting pot controlled by KJ or KT either on this street or the river.

River is a fold since no one really bluffs with this sizing, especially a guy with this description, and he's not value raising worse.
Polarized range on river Quote

      
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