Hi guys,

I was playing this hand yesterday and was thinking if i could have played it better.

Table dynamics : 1/1 underground games, 100bb game plays like 50bb due to the open raise sizing they utilise, 8bb, plus 1bb for limpers(usual among the regs.) instead of the usual 4bb raise.

bb: Loose cannon, carries A9o high way too far, running good.

button: Has knowledge of the game, deepstacked, about 400bb~

CO: Has some knowledge of the game, loves to call and see flops.

HJ: TAG. No further info.

Situation:

MP1 slipped Q while folding.

Hero plays TAG, wasn't running bad this session. Not tilting and pretty comfortable with that stack, though the 8bb OR is weird. Figures I could have OR to 8bb instead, or maybe even more cos 8bb equates to 4bb in this game, a couple of them which is deepstacked and that they would call it off nonetheless, especially bb, and I suppose the others would also join in the fun.

But yeah, I am still trying to figure out the optimal preflop strategy for the game because the game plays differently from casinos 1/2. Being 200bb deep is probably a better choice as it is equivalent to 100bb.

Hero(UTG) 160bb~: KKp open raises to 6bb

folds to HJ, CO, Button and bb who called.

Pot:31bb~

Flop: Qc2s7c

Hero cbet 28bb, HJ fold, CO fold, Button and bb call.

Turn: 7s

Hero bet 40bb, button shoved, bb folded 76o because H acted out of position(oops) by calling.

Pot: 157bb~.

Hero called off 86bb~ and is all in.

Could H have checked on the Turn? The 7 is definitely in one of the Vs' ranges, especially the bb cos he plays all kinds of hands almost in every hand.
But H is already pot commited at this point, or is he not, in your opinion? It's about 2:1 considering the pot when V hasn't shoved yet, though.

The flush that didn't come on the Turn, H figures Button to be either set mining, or over playing the flush draw. his button calling range is about 22+, AXs+, KJs.

But if H were to check in this spot, it is weird too, cos if he is looking to get it in, he prolly will also have to call when the Button bets, and the bet off on the River.

Wha? Guy who carries A9 too far folds trips on that board?

You are committed when your hand has sufficient equity vs your opponents gii range that you can gii and be at least break even vs the range villain gii with considering stacks and pot size atvpoint of betting or calling allin. Use some software to test some villain ranges vs your KK in this situation.

If the opens in this game are big then open your premiums big too. If there is no limping then yes it will kind of play like a bigger blind game except that you wont get blinded away very fast so you can afford to pick your moments more.

If there is a lot of limping then the occasional massive raise will not make it play like a bigger blind game as long as you don't insist on never limping behind.

In this particular hand I doubt a good player is shoving the turn on a paired board with a flush draw or top pair with effective stacks at preflop of 160bb. Hero looks too committed for villain to expect fold equity and villain's draw makes him a dog and maybe drawing dead. Maybe just maybe villain does this with NFD expecting his ace outs are good but a lot of the time he's going to have trips+

Hero cant very well x/f turn if turn bet is small and he can't bet a reasonable amount on turn and get away very easily either on turn or river if there is more betting and yet his 1-pair hand is frequently second best when stacks go in. Something must be wrong here...

I think your problems here arose because the pot went multiway all the way to turn and the extra chips in the pot from your 4 opponents calling preflop and 3 calling flop inflated the pot and ended up making you feel committed.

What you have to remember is your chance of winning, even with KK, drops rapidly with each extra opponent, particularly after the flop. You want to bet less since your chance of winning is lower but you actually bet more because the pot is bigger.

I bet much less frequently and usually a lower amount relative to the pot into multiway pots and I generally want a better hand than 1-pair if a multiwaypot looks like it is going allin. I'd have saved myself a lot of money over the years if I'd always managed to cbet multiway flops for 1/2 pot and then x/f turns if my flop cbet got called multiway.

I expect villain showed you 2s full.

Seems like BTN could have pocket 2s or A7s. Doubtful he's overplaying a FD, and if he's a competent opponent, he should know your range is weighted toward TPTK+ and he has little fold equity as a result. Weird that the other player folded a 7, seems like your analysis of him overplaying hands isn't entirely accurate.

So yeah, I'd assume the Baluga Theorem applies here since you haven't stated anything to lead me to believe BTN is enough of a LAG to do this on a draw.

Yeah I was shocked too when he announced to the table that he's planning to fold the hand before folding it and showing his hand.

Seems like he has knowledge of the game, but because he's loose with his game and his mouth haha, he says he isn't good with postflop games lol.

Hi!,

I just did a simple calculation on equilab and against 4 other V with the same ranges. I inserted 22-QQ, A2-AQ+, KJs, KQo+ and it shows that Hero is about 51%~ to win preflop.

So, Does it mean that if H has anything 33% or more to gii, he should? Since he has already committed half his stack into the pot and getting 2:1 before V's shove on Turn and also based on the ranges against Vs' which lead to H having 48%+ to win?

I am not too sure about betting smaller preflop or postflop, because even if I raise it to 15bb I assume, there would at least be ONE caller, though that is rare. Even if there is ONE caller, H raises it up to 15bb, V calls, H cbets 20bb V calls and H bets again OTT 50bb into 70bb pot, and V reraises, H is still pot committed, because even though 7X is in V's range including FD, 22, QQ, 77, V could also possibly be holding onto TP or even AX and be doing their thing by calling because they feel the need to.

When I betted big into the flop, it is first, to get value from lousier pairs, to reduce the no. of Vs' in the pot since I am OOP, and to protect my hand from getting outdrawn and landing myself into a awkward spot.

I am still in the midst of trying out different strategies at this place because their pre flop plays is very different (8bb OR equates to 4bb). But yeah, bad beat prolly?

Hi!

Yeah 22, A7s is definitely in V's range but assuming he is a TAG, he has no reason to reraise OTT, unless he is semi bluffing his missed draw, OR he could really be holding onto something big, and so I assume he wouldn't call OTF with A7, but to slowplay 22, is alittle riskier since he is giving H and other players a chance to hit the flush and even if he is IP.

As for the blind, it feels very weird, really. And he really did fold it because he feels that the Button is holding onto something big, he assumes Button holds QQp and is slowplaying OTF.

And what's the Baluga Theorem about? Not very sure about this concept.