$1/2 Horseshoe

$350 Hero UTG+1, asian, in early 30s, in a hoodie and college tshirt. TAG image if anyone if even playing attention

$400 BB Villain (V1), black guy late 30s, in work uniform (bus driver for the city), somewhat nitty, hasnt shown any bluffs in the last two hours of play, straight forward.

$200 LP Villain (V2), older asian male, early 50s, short stacks 50bb when he rebuys, weak passive player

Straddle out for $5

Hero calls straddle with 2 2
7 players to the flop.

Flop ($35) A 9 2
V1 opens from BB with $20. straddle folds, hero flats $20, rest fold to V2 in LP calls.

Turn ($95) J
V1 opens with $40.

Hero?

Umm...raise flop?

Bet turn...

Shove river.

Can't get any easier.

I actually like the flat on the flop, the board is fairly dry and I want villains to call with their Ax or 9x hands so they can hit two pair on the turn. We make more money getting 2 or 3 players to call for $20 than raising flop to like $50 and getting one caller. Similarly, the more players that call, better odds one of them hits two pair on turn and pays us off. Similarly, I'd rather save our raise for the turn since we can get more money in the pot by raising turn when V bets out than if we raise flop and then bet turn...

J is a good card for us on turn since it plays well with the Ace or 9 (AJ/J9) so now, time to raise.

Raise to $100. We want callers and V will almost have to call that bet. Plus, now it looks like maybe we picked up a backdoor draw and V might even re-raise (fingers crossed) but at the very least he is calling this raise.

Lastly, i've been adding in ******o overbet shoves in these situations, roughly 10% of the time in these spots I overbet shove all-in and have hand some surprising positive results. Its amazing what V's talk themselves into calling, so you could actually shove all-in here as well believe it or not.

So, 90% of the time, I raise her to $100, 10% of the time, I shove all-in.

EDIT: Standard raise flop, bet turn shove river line is fine as well.

Or you can do above.

This better not be a BBV thread...

I flat flop but we have to get money in on the turn. Raise whatever you think he will call with AJ AQ whatever. Then sell it again on river. Remember guys like that dont like to fold big aces so dont hold back too much,.

flat flop all day.. turn raise and shove river unless a 9 or A hits on the river..

the shove on the turn does what? just trying to understand what this will do for us... i mean i think i get that it polarizes our hand. any other reasons i'm overlooking?

i flatted the flop for the reasons listed above, i felt i had the Ax 9x hands crushed and wanted more money in the pot. i think i was a bit surprised when the J hit and was getting bet into again, thinking still a very dry card and i didnt want to raise to scare away V2 in LP. looking back at the HH my play was to be made on the turn, to about $100 as dgiharris said. as played... i flatted and V2 came along as well.

Straddle out for $5

Hero calls straddle with 2 2
7 players to the flop.

Flop ($35) A 9 2
V1 opens from BB with $20. straddle folds, hero flats $20, rest fold to V2 in LP calls.

Turn ($95) J
V1 opens with $40.

River ($215) 2
V1 checks. Hero?

We have about $250 behind us. Is this a small bet? Or is this a shove/overbet/polarization to induce a call? Again, player behind us has about 120 behind and is a weak passive player, V1 is a pretty nitty player with about $300 behind.

As played I'd bet whatever V2 has left.

V1 probably didn't like the river, so you're really targetting V2.

grunch

flop, his range is mostly TP on this dry board. I like the call since there is nothing he can really call a raise with except sets. Nits usually think the worst and don't call raises with just TP hands.

turn, he could have picked up a FD to go with TP or made 2 pair with the jack but there are way more weak TP combos than anything else in his range. But because his range got a little stronger, I would shove. He could have Ax which might add to his AI calling range of 2 pair+ or maybe even TPTK if he thinks you are shoving on a draw. Plus, if he has a weak TP hand, he probably isn't going to call any raise.

The only hands that beat you are sets and there are only 6 likely combos (99 or AA) and you can discount heavily AA since he would probably raise PF. I'm guessing that since you are posting this hand, you met the top of his range.

or you met the top of your range

Just bet a small amount ~1/2 pot to get value out of the good 2 pairs and weak TP hands that are left in his range. It's unlikely that he has a flush or FH since he checked.

I totally missed the asian lady in the hand . Sorry about that. Too early in the morning I guess.

Yeah whether to raise the flop or not depends on your read. Flat is fine if they are ok but if they r rly bad then is missing loads of value.

Raise the turn. Ship river. As played it depends on your read of how strong you think opponent is.I'd prob bet about 120.

lolwhat?
you know 222AA or 22299 beats trip Aces or 9s, unless Villain flopped top two, then it's unlucky

This is something I'm still experimenting on, namely recognizing situations in which fish will call offensive all-in over bet shoves and getting max value.

Sometime fish level themselves and call with a weak ace thinking (for whatever fish reason) that you are on a draw.
Sometimes donks take it as a personal attack on thier egos and call out of spite
Sometimes fish or donks are on a draw and miss on river and don't call the river bet
Sometimes the river counterfiets our hand in some way that lets the fish slip the hook and fold to our river bet

I've been surprised by my results when I overbet shove something truly offensive like $500 into a $125 pot on a K 3 8 2 board when I have a set of threes and get snapped called by a V with KQo.

Like I said, I'm still experimenting with it and find that it fits in well with my overall game since I squeeze a fair amount of the time and am a fairly aggressive TAG. So far, I think i've found a nice sweet spot in my "overbet shove" frequency of doing it roughly 10% of the time when I'm in these sort of situations.

I'd say that often hands like this are examples of "Shania". Against somebody remotely competent in a limped pot you are simply never winning that big a pot if you haven't constantly been applying pressure previously.

It has been mentioned before you can have the lowest VPIP at the table and still be considered a maniac if you PFR/cbet and barrel enough.

Flatting flop is probably marginally better because non droolers are b/f their entire range aside from A9 and A2 on this flop to a raise in a limped pot.

Same goes for turn.

I'd probably also call preflop although I doubt it would be much of a mistake folding if the table was aggro (especially in straddled pots).

I also just call the flop. Flop is bone dry, plus we have a zillion people behind us that we'd love to put in some money / then improve to 2nd best hands on the turn. We'll also have position on the donker on later streets so shouldn't have trouble getting stacks in when desired.

I'd raise the turn. A backdoor flush draw on the river might slow things down. Plus if we just call (and other villain goes away), the pot will be $175 with our stack at $290, so will be difficult to get stacks in. I'd raise between $100 - $120 so that we can shove the river. AA/JJ seem unlikely, so I'm cool with going broke to 99 since there are so many two pair hands here that could think they are good.

ETA: As played, I still shove the river. He has an A and is scared someone backed into a 2 / flush, and now his kicker might not even play and be chopping with other Aces. However, it could look like we're trying to get him off a chop. Bottom line for me is that the difference in times he pays off a smallish bet versus a shove simply ain't great enough to make shoving not the best move overall, IMO. ETA#2: I didn't realize other villain also came along, which I think means it's even more likely one of these guys pays a shove off, but then again, I guess it also means it's less likely that our bet is going to be taken as a bluff.

GcluelessNLnoobG

on river hero bets half the pot $110 and gets called by V2, with V1 tank folding.

hero turns over 22 and V2 mucks.

V1 claimed he folded A9 and i later asked V2 what he had, he said AJ.

That's why I raise turn.

On the flop they can be leading with just one pair, but once it's 3-way and the pot is bloated on the turn, they usually tighten up and don't bet unless they have two pair. So if they bet you have to raise by then.