I'm just going to come straight out with what happened. Please vote on whether or not this is "good poker" and +EV or foolishness as I explain the situation. So that there is no bias I won't say if I was the person playing or person criticizing.

1-2 NL Holdem at a Wild Home Game Friday Night.

Hero is UTG with about 200 in front. Good TAG image.

V1 is to the left of the hero UTG+1. Very Loose player. Somewhat aggressive. Definitely not a maniac. 300 in front.

V2 is a LAG. Some may say he is a maniac but I actually think he's more of a Lag. He definitely has a stop sign but also calls and raises light a lot and loves to bluff. 400 in front.

Hero opens with a raise to $15 with 10s9s.

V1 calls.

V2 immediately raises to $60. Everyone folds to hero.

Hero calls. V1 calls.

(183)

Flop comes 6s-6h-Ks.

Hero immediately pushes and gets called by V1 who was holding A-6d. V2 folds.

Did hero play well or is he out to lunch?

You mean hero folds after the flop right? You list V2 in 2 spots.

You are too short stacked to call this 3 bet oop. Also the fact that the 3 bet is coming from a wider range makes it worse. Prefer deeper stacks vs a tighter range and a smaller sizing.

Also the open to 7.5x utg with 10-9ss @ 100bb is highly questionable.

oh yeah I was gonna mention that too, but forgot.

FYP?

Whole play is spew. Fold pre in EP OOP to 2 lags, def fold to 3!. Shove OTF is meh. At least it maximizes FE.

Oh my bad, I meant to type hero pushes all in on the flop. V1 calls and V2 folds.

That's what I thought you meant. I'll edit OP.

That's clearer. Well yeah still pf is bad.

And flop kind of sucks too because there's no value hand you should be playing this way. V1 having A6 aside, to any reasonably good hand reader 90% of the time you have 2 spades here. The other 10% you have 22-QQ(minus 66).

At least that's what villain's have had the thousands of times I've seen this spot.

Not a big fan of the utg open but i guess its ok if you wanna mix it up a little bit.

Against the 3bet, it is a fold. you are OOP and the price to call is too expensive. When playing SCs, you do not have a made hand, the strength of your hand is hugely flop dependent, so if you cant get to see the flop cheaply, fold.

OTF: i dont like the shove here, the king hits both villains range(villains could be holding many KJ+ hands), i dont think you have much fold equity in this spot. Maybe against 1 villain is alright, but 2 villains, no.

imo, i think the big mistake is calling the 3bet pf. On the flop with your flush draw, even if you check instead of shoving, you might be getting the right price to chase your draw if villains bet.

Would limping this hand with the intention of limp-calling a reasonably sized open (esp. from one of the LAGs) be profitable here?

Really dislike the open. Postflop is acceptable. Calling the 3! Preflop also questionable, would jam be better? Or fold.

Calling the 3bet is the real spew here.

Open pre is too loose/too big with this hand and effective stack sizes and especially being OOP to a couple of frisky players.

Postflop is whatever because hero is likely behind but with outs and is committed. Probably figured to either get it in with max equity or maybe really luck out and fold the LAGs.

This is a case of a questionable open leading to a bad response to a 3bet leading to hero dropping 100bb into the middle as a big dog.

whole hand is spew.

the way you punish loose aggressive players is not by opening a weak hand out of position for a big raise and then calling a 3bet. you punish LAGs by 3betting preflop in position. you punish them for having a loose range with a widened 3 bet for value range, you punish them for relying on aggression by 3betting and taking control of the aggression, and you do this in position to limit their ability to play back at you. opening a weak hand out of position then calling a 3bet from a LAG is exactly how they want you to play. if they are good LAGs you are going to lose piles of chips over time playing like this. just fold preflop.

it's not as bad as calling a 3bet but it's not great. the question of "is it profitable" really depends on how they play postflop and what their leaks are.

3betting this hand in position against a standard LLSNL LAG some of the time would definitely be profitable though.

Grunch.

I think the open is fine as you’re not going to get 3! very often with a good TAG image, even in wild games. If there’s a 3! over 15-20% of hands fold pre obv.

Calling the 3! at this stack depth with this hand is pretty bad imo.

Flop is w/e. At this point, after flopping a FD you might as well shove but just realize that you’re going to flop no draw, no pair way more often than you think (I assume). Also, I wouldn’t get into the habit of overbet shoving OTF heads up, it’s rarely the best play imo.

It’s not the best line, but it’s probably “profitable”. If you want to, check the hand I posted a few days ago. I had 109dd and won 80 BB w/out showdown

Raise smaller pre or you’re going to wind up in some bad spots (like this one). At 100bb you should prob just fold pre. Fold to the 3b if you’re less than 200bb eff. As played once you flop a FD it’s goimg in regardless.

If Hero is your "friend," the best move is to tell him that 2+2 thought he was brilliant and should keep playing this way. If you are Hero, you should be folding SC in the UTG based the call of the 3bet pf. You don't have enough skill to play that hand yet in EP. That was the worst decision in this hand. If you are going to play this hand after the 3bet against a LAG, you should have 4bet all in.

Hero's line is not good. Raising T9s from UTG with 100bb vs. very loose players is a pretty bad idea. Calling the 3bet is terrible. I'd rather shove pre to gamble.

Thanks for all the responses and thanks to Garrick for the edit:

As you probably guessed I was not the Hero in this scenario but I criticized his play. He told me to go back to my ABC nit poker and see how far I go.

Here's how he explained it:

He reaised to 15 preflop with 10-9 suited and showed me a chart that showed 10-9 suited is hand to open with a raise with from any position. I saw his chart and confirmed it.

He said that when V2 reraised to 60 it's worth a call because he was sure V1 , a loose player, was going to call. That means he is calling 45 to win 180. Thats 4 to 1 odds and 25% equity. (I'm not exactly sure what he's trying to say).

He said that I need to make it very clear that the 2 villians are MANIACS. Let me re-emphasize. MANIACS.

I mentioned that the people criticizing his play have probably played thousands of hours of poker and encountered a Maniac or two on the same table before. Personally, I think v1 and V2 are LAGs but not maniacs.

He asked me if I was getting the hand reviewed by some obscure Website and I lol'd back at him and told him it was one of the most famous poker related websites in the world.

He said later on V2 showed him 89s.

He said the hand was getting reviewed by ABC players who think they are good at poker but really aren't because they can't adjust to the situation. (This is his words not mine..I want to make it clear).

Confirmed: Poker will never die.

People can have all the tools in the world and they always find a way to misinterpret them.

Lots of preflop charts are suspect in the first place but even if you follow someones chart religiously that says to raise T9s from any position (Id throw that chart away), I doubt it says to raise to 7.5X.

Calling the 3 bet of that size with this stack size is complete spew.

I am just an abc player so I am unable to comprehend the high level play of your friend.

The important question is, did he end up winning the hand? Because that is the determining factor whether his play was truly great or not.

i play a very loose aggressive style most of the time, because the situation in LLSNL generally allows for it. the advice I gave is specifically how you should best counter someone with a style like mine. i know this is the best way to counter this style because this is the style that i play and win money with lol.

raising weak then calling a 3bet weak out of position is how you get steamrolled by a LAG. you are conceding the three things a LAG wants most: range advantage, aggression advantage, and position. then you make the guy's dream come true by donk shoving when he flops trips lol which is just like the cherry on the sundae.

if your friend is 100% confident he knows poker better than the twoplustwo community tell him to invite me to the homegame as a representative of the LLSNL forum and we can play $25/$50 HU until we decide who is better.

Best way to crush a maniac is make any top pair hand and don’t fold. That means start with hands that make strong pairs. T9s and 100bb is not that hand.

No. I will be the representative. (Please)