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Playing like chicken with OPs on scary boards Playing like chicken with OPs on scary boards

05-11-2015 , 01:43 AM
V ($400, BB) is a pretty bad player and calls a lot but has a tendency to ultra-tighten up once on a 100BB+ stack. Hero has a tight image too.

Hero ($250) raises $15 with QQ UTG
Two callers, including UTG+1 and V in BB

Flop ($45): JT7
BB bets $25, Hero tank-calls, UTG+1 calls

Turn ($120): 6
BB bets $25, Hero tank-calls, UTG+1 folds

River ($170): 5
BB bets $40, Hero tank-calls

BB shows AK

Alternately, if Hero raises flop to $110, V folds AJ and shoves only better like this hand and we lose our entire stack.
Playing like chicken with OPs on scary boards Quote
05-11-2015 , 01:49 AM
I think you could raise less on the flop, where do you get 110 as a raising number? I like a raise on the flop with our Queens. Obv he has AK of spades so he is not going anywhere, but we don't know that at the time you just called. Next time you should leave the results out of it until you get some feedback. Just a suggestion. Once you just called the flop, I don't mind the call call after, but I think a raise on the flop would've been better than a call.
Playing like chicken with OPs on scary boards Quote
05-11-2015 , 02:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCYoung
I think you could raise less on the flop, where do you get 110 as a raising number?
I've never experimented with making smaller raises in this spot simply because the board is super-wet and very obviously, we don't to price V in. But I would like to know your thought process behind it.

Faced a similar spot yesterday and there's a consensus on making a big raise when there's a SD/FD board facing a donk: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...oards-1530901/
Playing like chicken with OPs on scary boards Quote
05-11-2015 , 02:14 AM
Well, the main reason is by raising to 110 we are practically committing our self to this hand on a wet board. I think we can get the same effect with a smaller raise, but one we can get away from if we get crazy resistance. I don't really have a number, maybe more in 80 range I am guessing give or take..but I am not doing all the math or anything.
Playing like chicken with OPs on scary boards Quote
05-11-2015 , 02:22 AM
bad player who calls a lot - folds TPTK to single raise

does not compute

if he folds AJ to a raise, bluff all your air obviously
Playing like chicken with OPs on scary boards Quote
05-11-2015 , 02:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matzah_ball
bad player who calls a lot - folds TPTK to single raise

does not compute
We have enough history and Hero has been playing tight tonight so V knows Hero beats AJ if he raises. Also, V is scared money and tightens up considerably when 100BB+ after luckboxing 30BB buyins.
Playing like chicken with OPs on scary boards Quote
05-11-2015 , 02:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCYoung
Well, the main reason is by raising to 110 we are practically committing our self to this hand on a wet board. I think we can get the same effect with a smaller raise, but one we can get away from if we get crazy resistance. I don't really have a number, maybe more in 80 range I am guessing give or take..but I am not doing all the math or anything.
How do you define "crazy resistance"?

Do you really think V is donk/folding for $55 more?
Playing like chicken with OPs on scary boards Quote
05-11-2015 , 02:35 AM
Again, the solution is to bluff more if he's giving up with that little resistance.

But if your assumption is correct then call down is fine.
Playing like chicken with OPs on scary boards Quote
05-11-2015 , 02:41 AM
Grunch

I think you got off cheaply. Nice job. I don't mind a call here given your read.

Would calling the flop, with the intention to raise a safe turn card, be a bad line here?
Playing like chicken with OPs on scary boards Quote
05-11-2015 , 06:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L00t
Alternately, if Hero raises flop to $110, V folds AJ and shoves only better like this hand and we lose our entire stack.
This is just like your other thread . Your Villains are playing their cards totally face-up for your benefit.
Playing like chicken with OPs on scary boards Quote
05-11-2015 , 07:06 AM
Quick question for everyone on the flop. Is Hero ahead or behind? Once you have that answer, the rest of the hand will start coming together for you.
Playing like chicken with OPs on scary boards Quote
05-11-2015 , 11:28 AM
I think the river is probably a fold as this guy is never bluffing and you did raise pre.
Playing like chicken with OPs on scary boards Quote
05-11-2015 , 01:55 PM
I'm assuming this is 1/3 NL.

I'd raise to $25 preflop, which I'm guessing ain't too out-of-line, plus enables us to get in 10% of our stack preflop where we can simply stack off postflop with TP.

Even though going 3way ain't great, giving 2 opponents ~17:1 implied odds preflop (I really wish we raised more), the bottom line is that this board is uber drawy and we could be up against them. The SPR is only ~5, so I'm committing here. I would raise the flop to ~$130 and get the rest in on the turn.

As played, I would also call the turn. It's possible we still have the best hand. It's also possible a better hand (such as two pair) got scared on this card and bet small, where we now have lottsa outs given these odds.

Next time don't show results as it may skew/taint responses, which is why I'm not responding to the river play (hard to do once you know results).

GcluelessNLnoobG
Playing like chicken with OPs on scary boards Quote
05-14-2015 , 11:38 AM
^ Standard open is $15. I'm not adjusting the raise size and giving away my hand strength.
Playing like chicken with OPs on scary boards Quote
05-14-2015 , 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L00t
^ Standard open is $15. I'm not adjusting the raise size and giving away my hand strength.
If a lotta stacks are in the $200 - $250 range (which a decent amount are at this level, especially early in the session), you can simply make $20 - $25 your standard for all your raises (which won't give away the strength of your hand). And if you are pretty sure you are going to be up against a particular stack, you can simply bet 10% of stack size (if reasonable), which again won't give away the strength of your hand.

The "standard" open at my table is also typically around ~$15. And these openers "standardly" see a very multiway flop (which is undesired, imo).

Gthevastmajorityof"standard"playersarelosingplayer s;youdon'thavetobestandardG
Playing like chicken with OPs on scary boards Quote
05-14-2015 , 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L00t
V ($400, BB) is a pretty bad player and calls a lot but has a tendency to ultra-tighten up once on a 100BB+ stack. Hero has a tight image too.

Hero ($250) raises $15 with QQ UTG
Two callers, including UTG+1 and V in BB

Flop ($45): JT7
BB bets $25, Hero tank-calls, UTG+1 calls

Turn ($120): 6
BB bets $25, Hero tank-calls, UTG+1 folds

River ($170): 5
BB bets $40, Hero tank-calls

BB shows AK

Alternately, if Hero raises flop to $110, V folds AJ and shoves only better like this hand and we lose our entire stack.
Raise flop for value. We can get value from straight draws, flush draws, combo draws, Jx.

AP, turn and river are standard.
Playing like chicken with OPs on scary boards Quote
05-14-2015 , 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L00t
V ($400, BB) is a pretty bad player and calls a lot but has a tendency to ultra-tighten up once on a 100BB+ stack. Hero has a tight image too.



.
too? he's not on a 100bb stack right now, i dont understand
Playing like chicken with OPs on scary boards Quote
05-14-2015 , 01:07 PM
Have to raise that flop for value, and to protect your equity. I like going up to 85. If BB comes along we are shipping a 3/4 PSB on all blank turns. There are just so many more 1 pair and combo draw hands in his range OTF than made hands that beat hero.

AP never folding turn or river to that sizing.
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