It was a great play if he had a read that Hero would fold an overpair. If he was just playing his cards, he got lucky.

+1. This is a BAD play by villain. He did not put hero on KK and shove hoping to get hero off a better hand. Villain doesn't think on that level and if he did, his conclusion would be wrong because mathematically hero should call. He got his money in with the worst of it and it's unfortunate hero didn't capitalize on it.

Then description of a tight good reg who tries to put players on hands against another tight reg (who three-bet pre) is way off.

Grunch.

I think the preflop raising size is poor, given the straddle & the amount of players in the field. I'd make it $125-130 pre to set us up for an easy SPR to GII on favorable flops.

Our flop bet is weak - this is a flop that should hit one or both V's range. Since they're call-happy, I'm sure they're calling with OESDs and ISDs so let's get money in while we can. Bet $225 OTF and the hand plays itself.

AP, call, you've shown a bit of weakness and really we're not that deep - with the straddle we're only about 70bb effective.

ouch.

though, i'm not sure villain even made a bad play here. he likely puts you on a similar range and thinks he's ahead. plus his agression gave any/all fold equity that's out there... but i doubt he cares about a fold. he's probably making sure you pay to catch your straight or pair your A or K. spr was just right. he's got an over pair so he shoves.

We've all been there. I do think you under analyzed his range though. We have a primo hand here and if he hit a set on you, so be it. Tough fold. Some sessions our brains get the best of us. No Limit at its finest, here. Good Luck, grind on

I think OP played the hand great, exepct that he levelled himself to fold in the critical moment when he gets shoved on at the flop. Yes, he could have gone a little bit bigger pre, but that is a pretty small detail.

Infact i really like the half pot C-bet on the flop, because hero widens his own range with that bet, like he is trying to take down the pot for cheap with whiffed AQ or AK. I play KK or AA in similar spots the exact same way unless the flop is wet and drawheavy, and its a brilliant way to get even seasoned regs to level themself into stacking off with A-10/K-10 or JJ/QQ.

The board is pretty dry, and its no need to blast 80 percent pot bet or full pot bet on this flop- and if we just got called we have an easy stackoff on pretty much any turn card. Often villains will start talking to themself on the turn when hero ships the rest in and see the big pot out there and feel pot comitted with almost any piece of the board. Its a great way to manipulate the pot size and massage our stack into the middle.

Yeah I was confused too here. After the dust settled a bit, I was curious if this V was wayyyy better than I thought. He and I were friendly so I poked around in his brain after the session. He said: "I put you on JJ and thought I had the best hand."

I vomited again and remembered why I bought 2 bags of M&Ms.

IMO, if he bets a tad more pre and a tad more OTF, Hero doesn't get lost in the weeds. It's not a terribly wet flop but we should get action from Tx and QJ/KJ. If it was dry as a bone, 1/2 pot is fine. We would be okay with betting a bit more because we figure we'll get action from more hands than, say, a J52r board.

But lets not forget that we want hands like 10x or KJ/QJ or JJ/QQ to continue in the hand and see one more card. Huge part of villains range is drawing very slim no matter what, and of course villain is only getting to see the turn before we make sure the rest of stacks is going in.

My point is that the fact that hero infact only bets half the pot on the flop in this spot is probably one heavy factor that gets villain to shove on him, or to maybe just have called with 10X or JJ. And by sucking villain into the pot we are giving him the chance of making another expensive mistake: calling when we shove the rest in on the turn, feeling that he is pot committed.

Double post. ****ing laggy connection

I guess I'm looking at this from the viewpoint of the hero. When I read the hand history, I came to the conclusion this is a clear snap OTT. Most replies ITT are along the same lines. However, hero got lost when the big money was in play. So, if hero played in a way where more money got in pre and OTF, it becomes a more straight-forward hand for hero. It's less likely hero makes the mistake of folding because the math dictates even more that hero must call the turn shove.

I understand where youre coming from. You feel that hero could have done this easier for himself. What i am doing is adding some food for thought and i hope OP is getting something out of both your perspective and my perspective.

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AA is discounted because V insta-flats pre, which weights his range towards TT-KK, AK. V would probably shove w/AA pre, or at least think about it for a while. As played, have to call flop, expect to see JJ, QQ mostly, and occasionally TT, maybe 99.

The math is there for reassurance .. the read is there to pull the trigger. You read a range AND THEN do the math to help make a decision. You use your reads to steal pots when you have position and opponents show weakness. I think you must have pretty good reads on situations since you can cross over from cash to tournament, but sometimes we make it more difficult than it needs to be.

I go back to V comment and posts that popped up 'after' that comment. Although I think you did fine with your c-bet you need to consider how your opponents viewed the c-bet. That goes back to my biggest idea in these spots .. It's way more important to know how V views us then how we view them when OOP and get Flop 3-bet. Play the hand back in your head and make a decision.

A tight player 'should' never have allowed V2 to remain in the hand going to the Flop if he held AA. That was your biggest read to make here. Then it goes back to your history with V from previous spots like this one to tackle the 99/TT possibilities. If it's a coin flip, you had good math to call.

Moving up in stakes doesn't mean you have better players. (never move up in stakes since you got beat by the k-4o twice in one night) You have seen people who 'have' money play at a the stakes they can afford, not to their skill level.

I think you 'are' looking at things from a BB analysis, but you still know that 'this is a lot of money'. There's nothing wrong with that ... But you need to go back to more ABC type of poker play when at a new stake by charging more 'for value' when OOP so you can collect additional information and use it when the 'lot of money' ghost pops up.

The book mentioned by Jared (Tendlar?) is very good. He actually has 2 books out, very little poker but lots of thinking 'methods' and mood control so you can learn as much about yourself as your opponents may already know. GL

raise bigger preflop 130-150

you have 50% equity vs a range of 99+,TJs,T9s
if you take out 9T and AA you have 64%
if he just has 99-QQ your 62%

your getting 2.4:1 so you need 30% equity. so this is a snap call.
your plan should've been to bet/call off on the flop with this small of an spr.

for bet sizing id go 1/2-2/3pot and id chose w/e I think my sizing would be in this situation if I were going to bluff here

id have to have a very reliable tell on villain to think about going against this standard bet/call spot

This

Anyone ever mix in a flat pre with KK? As it turns out against this Villain you need to 3-bet. I mean in general. Maybe it's just that when KK flats pre it's not a hand with tough decisions and people don't make threads out of them. I've been noticing lately that every time I hear about someone checking for "some pot control" it's at a point in the hand where that ship has sailed. Maybe try pot controlling pre. Like when we say bet $25 not $20 otf, by the river the pot will be this much bigger and you can bet for value bigger. Well we can do the opposite and not put in 20 BB (I know it was straddled here) pre. 3-betting is just such a red flag, a lot of threads include a big pp 3-betting pre, you're still an overpair otf but then it becomes such a guess as to whether V hit a set or had a bigger pp the whole time. "He knows I 3-bet and now he's still showing flop aggression, am I ever still ahead here." It's like the most comfortable flop action when you 3-bet pre is to bet and get a fold otf, which is perfectly counter intuitive to what you actually want.

I.E. in this hand, you can't be 3-betting pre with KK and b/f'ing on a T94r flop, just can't happen. So you're 3-betting pre and then otf you're thinking that only better plays back at you and almost all worse folds (ideally you want V to just call every street I guess)? That's the opposite of what needs to be the case, worse needs to put money in and/or better needs to fold.

The flop was bad this hand, I'm not mad necessarily at this hand's preflop action, it's just the so many threads are like this. It's not like if you don't 3-bet with KK pre they're going to put you in poker jail. Flat with a big pp every once in a while, 3-bet 44 every once in a while.

Flop/turn/river is where the most value is, and in these types of hands only preflop value is happening and a lot is being lost or foregone on later streets.