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Players who talk and probe for information in big pots Players who talk and probe for information in big pots

10-03-2010 , 07:02 PM
How do you guys generally respond to people's probing and questioning in these situations.

I found myself in a situation last night where I backraised a loose player who had been pretty aggressive postflop and put him allin on the turn after he had come over a small bet from a weaker player in early position. The board was JT39. I was holding AK. I felt that I could get him to fold out all of his marginal hands (and bluffs, obviously) with this bet and I still had a fair amount of equity if called. I'm less interested in the strategy here than I am in the exchange of information.

He tanked for a while and then started asking me repeatedly and urgently "Am I drawing dead?" I don't usually reply at all when I'm in a big pot, just sitting looking ahead and straightforward. He was on my left and I was wearing a hat so there was no eye contact. I didn't move or say anything for a while, which is usually what I do whether I'm strong or weak, but he kept asking me questions. "Am I drawing dead, just tell me if I am and I'll fold."

I finally responded with "I don't know what you have." and repeated the answer when he asked again. Then he showed me Q8 for a made straight and asked me the same question. This time I was silent. He thought for a while longer and then called.

I feel like he got the best of me here by forcing me to give up information. What would have been the best way to handle this situation? Would ignoring him be best, or does statuing and staying completely silent look more like a bluff?
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10-03-2010 , 07:11 PM
Don't talk, don't move, don't do anything. That's the default position.

If you are about to burst and can't stand it any longer, then say, "Dealer, I'm calling the clock." Guaranteed that will break the moment, he'll get off track, and you'll know you only have to endure it one more minute. One additional benefit is that instead of you being under pressure, you've turned the tables and put him under pressure.

I've smiled, laughed and winked at people, but you have to be more comfortable doing it.
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10-03-2010 , 07:48 PM
Maybe your lines didn't make sense for a made flush?

Or he could have just been unable to let it go.
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10-03-2010 , 09:56 PM
You handled it pretty well here, only other thing you could do was as aforementioned call the clock after a couple minutes.
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10-03-2010 , 09:59 PM
he was never folding. i think your response was fine, he would have prob folded top pair.
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10-04-2010 , 03:34 AM
I just would of said "not if you have a set" in a very relaxed/calm voice. Most times though I just don't say anything and I just stare blankly at the villain (always).
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10-04-2010 , 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crod242
How do you guys generally respond to people's probing and questioning in these situations.
I always pretend not hear them and continue staring down at my hole cards.

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10-04-2010 , 11:51 AM
Agree, default is a simple stare, whatever gives up no info at all.

I once induced a call though, by staring for two minutes, then saying "I'll show you either way" then returning to the stare. It really felt good when he called my flopped set all-in with QQ until the Q on the turn.
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10-04-2010 , 12:00 PM
I think If he says "just tell me and ill fold" and you say something after being silent the entire time it looks weak
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10-04-2010 , 12:41 PM
I usually just burst into hysterical crying if they ask me anything so that they fold out of sheer awkwardness. That's just me though.
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10-04-2010 , 01:19 PM
well, coming from a person who uses talking more than anyone i know, i would say be real careful saying anything.

So they allows card showing eh? I think that is a really ****ty policy but on to the hand.

Myself, i would have looked right at him and asked him to fold, please fold cause i really need to win this pot. If he opened his mouth i would interrupt him with "NO, I MEAN IT, PLEASE FOLD DAMMIT".

Now if he asks if he is ahead really, i would just again say, Just please fold my man, honestly, just fold.

I usually make them wish they hadnt opened their mouth. But it is a knack that i dont know how well players can develop. It came very natural to me.

Ive also said this before and i think people thought i was ****ting them. I did not have a talk act until i played pretty well toasted one night. All my inhibitions disappeared and i would like stare into others eyes, talk crap, and bully them verbally if they were taunting me with questions. I did it a few times and said, holy crap, im missing out on a ton of profit by not doing this at the table. Try it sometime. You will quickly see what its like to be table captain, others deferring to you and your control of the table can be awesome IF you can maintain good play all the while. Do you think players attempt to bluff a drunk guy? Almost never. Figure out how to get that same respect sober and you have now jumped a level that most players dont even know about.

And right off the bat on paper, lets look at this. Drunk guy sits down and before long the entire table is trying to figure out how to get a big hand to play with and go after the drunk guy. lol, WE know what they are thinking, they have no idea what we are thinking. Nice edge right off the bat.
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10-04-2010 , 01:26 PM
tell him exactly what you have. works every time.
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10-04-2010 , 02:06 PM
I made a massive call on the weekends big comp cos villain jammed all in over my raise from the the bb and then went as ridged as a statue when he was normally quiet 'bubbly' I read that as not wanting a call and made a really thin call with AJs.. villain said good call before I showed and tabled KQ. Obvs King and Queen hit flop and he scoops with 2 tables left, as I walked away he said he didnt want a caller, but was surprised I called. I read you like a book mate. All other times he'd been all in he at least breathed! pick a stance for all moves that are constant and no reads possible. I always shuffle chips once every two seconds and stare at the flop, it reduces nerves too if you have to concentrate on keeping time with the chip tricks.
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10-04-2010 , 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snex
tell him exactly what you have. works every time.
re Jamie Gold? agreed. (unless youre Allen Cunningham and u call with no pair and are good)
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10-04-2010 , 04:24 PM
won 800 euro the weekend cos of this. spent five min talking to a guy looking for info. he said nothing and looked like a rabbit in headlights but i read him as a good player so he could have been giving mixed tells.

then i saw him messaging his ear lobe(comforting himself) put him on a flush draw and called the massive over bet.

pretty sweat. thing is when you talk to the player, most of the info has nothing to do with what they say
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10-04-2010 , 04:31 PM
actually i wish they ruled out speaking to others during play (about the hand anyway) and put in an instant timeclock on every hand that appears to be a tank.

98% of all the talk is a waste of everyones time, and god knows we have more time to waste when playing live poker.
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10-04-2010 , 05:02 PM
But how is everyone gonna tell you about their soul reads itt!

Im assuming answering "clock" to all questions will be seen as a douchebag move.

The only time Ive been questioned I just answered yes to all his questions while staring at the board.

"You bluffling?"
"yes"
"missed your flush draw?'
"yes"
"Or did you flop a set?"
"yes"
"How can you hit both?"
"yes"
"So you had a set and a flush draw?"
"yes"
"So you want me to call?"
"yes"

It kinda got pointless as he was just asking questions to see if I kept answering yes, but it did knock him off of his "get info outta me" talking. Ive never really been grilled since, most time people talk its all hollywood.
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10-04-2010 , 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AintNoLimit
actually i wish they ruled out speaking to others during play (about the hand anyway) and put in an instant timeclock on every hand that appears to be a tank.

98% of all the talk is a waste of everyones time, and god knows we have more time to waste when playing live poker.
My sarcasm Radar might be off but strongly disagree of you're serious.

Especially if you play in house games with regulars.

Go play online if this is how you feel.

As for the hand I always smile and kind of lean back and stretch making his comment into some kind of joke looking real comfortable....(against a no history villain) but mix it up against ppl with history
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10-04-2010 , 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slimdog11
My sarcasm Radar might be off but strongly disagree of you're serious.

Especially if you play in house games with regulars.

Go play online if this is how you feel.

As for the hand I always smile and kind of lean back and stretch making his comment into some kind of joke looking real comfortable....(against a no history villain) but mix it up against ppl with history

well im sure this is a personal thing, and im sure that i do this about as good as anyone that i have at least seen play with an act/talk. But im just as sure that i would prolly win the same amount IF talking was banned due to the ungodly amount of time that is wasted on it. Watching some routine douchebad with $70 in front of him asking question after question on a $500 pot, and obvious he learned what questions he should ask from TV, yea, i would like to cut all that sheeit out. Im sure i would gain more from the extra hands i get in.

And i will also say that most people way over exaggerate their ability to learn anything from those questions. I never ask a question, ever. I do reply, i do TELL players things. But i never ask a question. I dont find the answers worth anything. Its also kind of silly since we play a game, and now at the end im supposed to beg the villain to tell me his hand, tell me if he wants me to fold, and all that stupid ****. Thats just pure nonsense (to me). But looking at a guy and telling him, "now im gonna check, but i swear if you bet i am going to shove!" with a real earnest face, well now i can guarantee i usually get something fromhow they react to that. They cannot help it. Its natural. Especially the first couple of microseconds.
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10-04-2010 , 06:41 PM
Generally the only question I'll ever ask if faced with a tough decision is "Show me a card?"

Because sometimes they do... o.O
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10-04-2010 , 06:51 PM
I love table talk at 1/2 people give away a ton of information, well certainly enough to make it worthwhile
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10-04-2010 , 07:57 PM
You expected a low limit live player to fold a made straight?
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10-04-2010 , 11:59 PM
I find listening to players when they arent in a hand to yield WAY more info...

"I had AJ there but yada yada" or "I folded blah blah"
Some guys are even nice enough to show you there hands when you arent involved in the action (ie they are mucking at showdown).

Yea some guys might lie, but I find they will tell the truth way more after a hand and it gives great insight into how they play.

Personally I think Ive lied about every hand Ive ever talked about at a live game hehe. Guess I could be getting leveled by smart regs - but most them show me their cards. Probably to try to get me to show mine.....
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10-05-2010 , 03:28 AM
Villain: "will you show if i fold?"

Hero: "will you fold if i say yes?"
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10-05-2010 , 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigvee
I find listening to players when they arent in a hand to yield WAY more info...

"I had AJ there but yada yada" or "I folded blah blah"
Some guys are even nice enough to show you there hands when you arent involved in the action (ie they are mucking at showdown).

Yea some guys might lie, but I find they will tell the truth way more after a hand and it gives great insight into how they play.

Personally I think Ive lied about every hand Ive ever talked about at a live game hehe. Guess I could be getting leveled by smart regs - but most them show me their cards. Probably to try to get me to show mine.....
Mainly this. Totally agree that most people asking the questions are deluding themselves and wasting my time by thinking that they can get info which will help them make the correct play.

In OP's particular example the villains most likely motive is one of ego/peer acceptance/looking clever, whatever you want to call it. He is NEVER folding the straight, even if he can't admit it to himself. He is aware that he'll feel like a donkey if he gets it in drawing dead so is desperate to let the table know he can at least see he is sometimes beaten, just to help his self esteem. This happens at all levels( see 2+2 favourite Daniel Negraneu), and I'd be lying if I said I've never done the same myself.
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