$1/2 Full ring NLTH
Reads and History
Table just started 30 min ago dynamics are mostly passive, except for me and two Villains. The stacks are deep with minimum 200BB buy-in.

I'm 21, white and playing tight so far, reading the table and paying attention.

V1. Is a spewy black guy with zero idea of bet sizing, pot odds, or anything, the guy is ritch and is having fun, playing like 60/30. He raises a lot, c-bets every time, and doesn't back down easily if he has thas piece of the flop. His bets are screaming tells - the bigger the bet the more he likes his hand. Pot size is unrelative to the bet size. There was a hand where he made a nut gutshot otr and bombed AI into a pot of $60.

V2. Is in his mid 20s, white, afaik, a co-owner of the place, thinks of himself as of good player, is, I'd say way too loose and agressive, his fancy plays often cost him too much. Likes to attack percieved weakness, tends to be sticky if he doesn't believe you, doesn't slow play.

V3. Is 20ish white internet kid playing ABC poker. Never cashing out, as far as i remember.

Hand:

V1(UTG)($340)
...
[B]V3(BU)($400)[B/]
Hero(SB)($500)
V2(BB)($450)

V1(UTG) raises $7 - he can do this with almost ATC.
2 callers.
V3(BU) calls.
Hero(SB) is dealt A8. Calls $6
V2(BB) calls.

Flop:
269
[Pot:$42] 6 players.
Hero checks.
V2 checks.
V1 bets $7.
2 folds
V3 calls.
Hero ..? [Pot:$56, 4 ppl, 1 left to act]

What is the best plan for the flop? I did not have one at the moment and just checked, knowing that V1 will likely c-bet. Now it has come to me and I'm think shall I raise or call or what?

Also the guy to my left (V2) usually starts reading his ipad the moment he is done with a hand, but he is still paying some attention to what is going on the table, so he is probably at least calling, too.

I just call.

If the PFR had been bigger (say $12) and the cbet on flop was bigger (say $30) with a call, I could consider a raise.

However, NFD plus an over and a BDSD getting 8-1 odds. Just call. The real juicey comes from hitting your FD and stacking a smaller FD, IMO.

If you raise flop, are you raising to buy a cheap turn card or bombing away on turn to take it down?

Keep the pot small until you want to make it big.

Call.

No reason to bloat the pot if said villain is known to be wild. If we hit an A, we can have a solid bluff catcher. If we hit the flush, that's when we can take I initiative and build a pot. I call

I think I raise because of the small cbet. OP states that the villain has a bet sizing leak; if he likes his hand he bets larger. Obv he doesnt like his hand. I expect him to be sticky to the raise so see if he can hit his overcard(s), but folding to further aggression whether he hit our flush or not on a lot of turns. I dont hate flatting so we can cooler the occasional smaller flush, but I think raising has a lot of merit since his bet sizing is small which means he is probably not so nutted up. If we hit our flush or pair (50%~ of the time) after we build the pot up some more, chances are we are ahead.

Make it $45; its very doubtful we get shoved off our big draw.

I also get in this pot preflop thanks to the deep stacks. Obviously I'm not playing for TP.

In a multiway pot with lots of people interested, I usually just check/call my draws until I make them, and then hope one of the interested opponents pay me off when I hit (i.e. ABC). Even though the bet/call of this lol small bet indicates weakness, I still just stick to my plan and call (especially OOP, where if a raise gets any callers then we're in a sucky situation if we whiff the turn).

I think with most stack sizes being in the 200BB I think there might be more value in a flat in hopes of over-flushing someone. Another benefit of flatting would be to give V2 the opportunity to attack perceived weakness, then 3betting over the top of that raise. Just my thoughts.

Hero calls.
V2 raises $35.
folded to V3.
V3 tanks and folds.
[Pot: $98]
Hero..?

We are OOP and heads up now. What is a good line to take here? Including plans for the turn if we hit/miss.
Hero ..?

I think its a call both times. I prob call again otf and c/f the turn if I don't hit the flush. This deep, I'm calling this bet all day. Although your implied odds might not be so great since your hand pretty much looks like the nfd here.

Hmm. Well, we're obviously not folding. Raising just looks kind of silly after not re-raising initially. So normally I'd probably just call here and eval. on the turn; there are sooo many good cards for you.

I don't know what to make of the check-reraise. OP says that V2 doesn't slowplay, but is also overly loose and aggressive. Normally I'd put villain on a set (pocket 9s or 6s) or a strong overpair such as TT, so may have to discount any backdoor straight potential.

If the turn bricks I'm hoping for a free card, but would probably still call any reasonably sized bet if I think villain will still pay me off if I hit on the river.

I c/r the flop the first time around, as you're going to take it down right there pretty damn often. Not enough callers for me to try to hope for flush over flush. AP, I just play it straight and call. Fold turn if you brick and he doesn't lay you odds. His raise size doesn't give me the impression that he actually wanted folds, and your implied odds aren't going to be stellar as you're OOP with a pretty face-up hand.

Hero calls flop.
[Pot: $126]
Turn: 2698
Hero..?

Is this a good card for us? If we checl how much are we prepared to call?

Call me spewy, but I think I like reraising the flop to around 150 with the intention of getting it in on any turn. We likely have 40-45% equity with our flush draw and overcard. I also think we do have some fold equity with our read of him being capable of attacking perceived weakness. I know you said he is sticky if he doesn't believe you, but if he has only 1 pair that's going to be a hell of a tough call for him to make.

I don't think calling is bad, but it sucks that we are out of position and our hand is basically face up, killing our implied odds somewhat.

After getting check raised on the flop, we're still getting over 3:1. Being OOP sucks, but I still call. We'll only have to make up $30 and villain has 10x that behind. Plus he's spewy. Plus he has no idea about bet sizing (so he might offer us great odds on the turn to continue chasing).

Seems like he likes his hand. If I hit my flush on the turn I probably just donk into him a good sized bet, say $100, which will set up an easy 2/3 PSB shove on the river. I guess we could go for a check/raise, but I find a lotta players shut down when the flush comes, so I wouldn't risk it.

I think the tricky thing is what to do if we hit an A. If villain pops a huge bet on the turn then I think fold.

ETA: Regarding 8 turn card, meh. I'd probably check/call up to about $50 (which will be giving us about 3.5:1, and even that might be a little loose cuz it's possible 6 is dirty). Our A/8 outs might be good, but they might actually cost us our whole stack against a better hand, so I'm not putting much stock in them. I'm basically playing for the flush only. If it hits, I open shove the river (a slight overbet of the pot); this guy doesn't sound like he's making any hero laydowns with good hands.

GcluelessNLnoobG

On the turn I check, I don't think I count any 8 our ace on the river as an out since s good percentage of villains range is sets and the rest is 2 pair which probably give you no action but check and hope villain donkey bets 40

I didn't check/call/raise, because I would have had (english times make me cry) to call if he shoved with 30ish% equity against a made hand.

Some questions to the crowd:
how playing call/call leaves our hand face up as a fd?
can someone say what percied ranges do hero and V have otf? It is intersting for me because I know Vs hand and we all know mine, so some more objective information will be helpfull.

+1 I am in the spew camp

I think we get him to fold a lot and we are doing so-so equity wise if he happened to hit the top of his range.

Can any one do the math on raise/calling?
Say Vs range is
79, 89, 9T, 9J - he folds
A9, 96, 66, 22, 78o, 78s, 7Tss, 34ss, 45ss, 67ss, 57ss, TJss, TQss, TKss, JQss, QKss - he sticks it in?

I don't think he can have 99 coulse from what i know he would repop it pre.

I'm prob c/rai on the flop the first time around and calling his c/ rai as played.

On the turn, I think this is a c/ rai to about 225 (assuming villian bets 75-80)... we will rep narrow as most sets would have raised the flop the first time, so we are repping like 88,7c6c,Tc7c and something like TT,JJ. With that said Villain can't call here with his air and our equity is pretty good against his calling range. If he ships we can still fold (if we want read dependent) with our sizing, assuming he would only ship with 2 pr and sets...100BB this would be an easy c/ship but since we are deep it is trickier...The other option imo is to check overship to maximize FE and we are still not that bad against his calling range considering that the more air he has in his turn betting range the better c/ship is, as we need 47% folds on a check ship it in to break even. a sample calling range below, I actually did a count on this with pro poker tools and found out that the move would be slightly +EV against my assigned turn betting range.

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

836 trials (Exhaustive)

board: 2698

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
Ac8c	24.04%	201	0
96,99,66,22,9d8d	75.96%	635	0

I think that is too strong a range for the Villain.

By the way in the hand ...


$1/2 Full ring NLTH
Reads and History
Table just started 30 min ago dynamics are mostly passive, except for me and two Villains. The stacks are deep with minimum 200BB buy-in.

I'm 21, white and playing tight so far, reading the table and paying attention.

V1. Is a spewy black guy with zero idea of bet sizing, pot odds, or anything, the guy is ritch and is having fun, playing like 60/30. He raises a lot, c-bets every time, and doesn't back down easily if he has thas piece of the flop. His bets are screaming tells - the bigger the bet the more he likes his hand. Pot size is unrelative to the bet size. There was a hand where he made a nut gutshot otr and bombed AI into a pot of $60.

V2. Is in his mid 20s, white, afaik, a co-owner of the place, thinks of himself as of good player, is, I'd say way too loose and agressive, his fancy plays often cost him too much. Likes to attack percieved weakness, tends to be sticky if he doesn't believe you, doesn't slow play.

V3. Is 20ish white internet kid playing ABC poker. Never cashing out, as far as i remember.

Hand:

V1(UTG)($340)
...
[B]V3(BU)($400)[B/]
Hero(SB)($500)
V2(BB)($450)

V1(UTG) raises $7 - he can do this with almost ATC.
2 callers.
V3(BU) calls.
Hero(SB) is dealt A8. Calls $6
V2(BB) calls.

Flop:269
[Pot:$42] 6 players.
Hero checks.
V2 checks.
V1 bets $7.
2 folds
V3 calls.
Hero calls.
V2 raises $35.
folded to V3.
V3 tanks and folds.
Hero calls flop.
[Pot: $126]
Turn: 2698
Hero checks.
V bets $60.
Hero calls.
I was not sure if the 8 was good for me, but I thought V could have raised flop on a wide range of hands, the price was not that bad, so I called.
[Pot: $246]
River: 26984
Hero check - calls $125.

At the river I was ready to give up, but the sizing all the way kept me wondering. Why would he make 1/2 PSB all the way if he had the nutz? Wouldn't he try to get it all in by the river? I pondered for really long atr, I was even called on a clock. I thought: "I've put him on a wide to start with, he is sure capable of 3-barrelling, his sizing is a bit awkward, any reason I should shrink his range more towards value hand by the river? Uh yeah, and I'm beating all of his missed draws. I call."

Before posting the results I would like to hear your opinions on my reasoning and call.

I guess you're right that the less than 1/2 PSB bet on turn on a very drawy board is a little suspicious. Plus villain might check back mediocre hands (such as TP) on the river. The problem I have is that he did check/raise two opponents on the flop which does indicate some strength. Ug. We basically have to hope he's barrelling a flush draw or 87 or even a trickier 76/65, which I guess is possible. When I make these calls and I'm right, I feel like the best poker player in the world; when I'm wrong, I feel like the absolute worst. Does that mean it's close?

BTW, if we're considering calling 1/2 PSB on a blank river, should that be affecting our turn decision? i.e. I think I need much better odds on the turn if I'm potentially going to spew on the river.

I agree that the flop raise seems suspicious. If you had seen him raise a draw before it would be different. I just don't see how we can be good here without such a read.

As per Villains description he is capable of bluffing/semibluffing.

So is the river call OK, in crowds opinion?

imo river is a fold, he prob checks back everything less than A9

His value range for betting is prob like 96,99,66,22,A9,Tc7c,7c5c, where his bluff range is KcQc,KcJc,KcTc,QcJc,QcTc,JcTc, which is less than a 5th of his value range. So even though we only need 25% to call, I still fold unless you think that villain is a spazztard and c/rai multiple ppl with very little equity on the flop, don't know villain but your see that type of play alot at LLSNL.

I think it is really close on the river. I think I lean slightly toward a call. Looking at the ranges kimoser gave I think are fairly accurate, although I might discount 96o a bit (he might not play preflop) and the sets just a bit (might bet a bit bigger on the turn). At the same time you might be able to add some TT and JJ to his range that he decided to play passively preflop. I'm not sure, but it seems like things are adding up to a near neutral EV decision between calling and folding.

I am noob but any chance he is showing up with TT or JJ here. May have given you an ok price to chase and not completely committed given board texture.