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PAHWM: I hate AK. I never win with it VI

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07-03-2021 , 10:59 AM

#26

snowman

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,754

read OP 1st post

V typically opens to $6
this open is $10

fish open larger with better hands

calling pre in position was better than 3-bet

now as played we have awkward stack size vs pot and missed flop.

check

Quote

07-03-2021 , 11:03 AM

#27

fatmanonguitar

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,034

Against an ABC player I don’t mind a small c-bet to fold out pocket pairs. But I’m obv folding to a raise and not putting any more chips in the pot if he calls unless we bink a J.

Quote

07-04-2021 , 11:04 PM

#28

spikeraw22

The Situation

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 8,741

Preflop:

Folds to Jewel who opens for $10. This is larger than normal (That's what she said). Tim and Ronald call. Hero looks down at AK and....

Hero raises to $50. Jewel calls with his small hands (I know). Tim remembers that he actually has to pay rent this month and folds. Ronald looks at me like I'm Gorbachev, says something about how I didn't follow the plan, and folds.

Flop: Q

($123)
Jewel consoles a cup of coffee and checks. Hero bets $40. Jewel follows his heart and intuition and calls.

Turn: Q

($203)
Jewel checks again. Hero?

Quote

07-05-2021 , 01:53 AM

#29

kimoser22

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 3,839

Quote:

Originally Posted by spikeraw22

($123)
Jewel consoles a cup of coffee and checks. Hero bets $40. Jewel follows his heart and intuition and calls.

Turn: Q

($203)
Jewel checks again. Hero?

you said in the intro that he's just playing his hand and needs good hands to put all the money in...with your stack size I'd prob go half pot (try to get under pairs to the T to fold plus some Tx, you also get value from str8 and flush draws. and re-eval on rivers, generally face-up Vs aren't keeping track of the pot and your 200 river bet will still put pressure on them even though it is only 1/2 the pot. don't think checking it back on the turn is bad fwiw

Quote

07-05-2021 , 02:15 AM

#30

hyperknit

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 2,718

We could try and triple him off AQ or KQ here but I think we have better candidates like AJ and KJ so I’ll just check it back and shift into realization

Quote

07-05-2021 , 09:26 AM

#31

Rebus

journeyman

Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 250

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyperknit

We could try and triple him off AQ or KQ here but I think we have better candidates like AJ and KJ so I’ll just check it back and shift into realization

Are AJ and KJ considered better bluffs because they have less SDV?
Or is it some blocker thing?

Quote

07-05-2021 , 12:36 PM

#32

snowman

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,754

why you and others feel the need to try and triple barrel bluff someone who as you stated just simply plays their hand is beyond me.

you can't bluff a station

you can't bluff someone who is unaware

IE : V doesn't have a clue what you are trying to rep and could care less ;
he only knows what he has.

Quote

07-05-2021 , 01:01 PM

#33

Petrucci

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 6,428

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowman

I agree on this analysis, and now that he called our flopbet+ we bricked the turn i am inclined to slow down and check.

Against some opponents who can handread+have a fold button i will ship this turn at some frequenzy, but not against this described villain.

Quote

07-05-2021 , 01:06 PM

#34

fatmanonguitar

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,034

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanonguitar

Against an ABC player I don’t mind a small c-bet to fold out pocket pairs. But I’m obv folding to a raise and not putting any more chips in the pot if he calls unless we bink a J.

I guess I planned to check brick turns if he calls flop so I'll stick with that.

Quote

07-05-2021 , 02:44 PM

#35

Rebus

journeyman

Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 250

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowman

I think only one person has advocated for a bet and it was with a view to 'eval river'.
Why do you think Jewel is a station?
Isn't part of the point of betting small on the flop to 'keep his range wide' and then blow him off the weak bits of it on the turn, with up to 10 outs if called?
I guess I am now advocating for a turn bet - $140 and give up river

Quote

07-05-2021 , 04:06 PM

#36

hyperknit

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 2,718

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebus

Are AJ and KJ considered better bluffs because they have less SDV?

Or is it some blocker thing?

Well KJ is open ended as well which is nice to have 8 outs rather than 4.

Also Yes K hi wins less often than A hi at show down.

Quote

07-05-2021 , 04:06 PM

#37

snowman

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,754

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebus

op post
Just kind of boring and playing his hand. He seems kind of heartless as in he's not putting a lot of money in without a good hand

typical open $6

this open $10

V doesn't read hand ranges
we whiffed

PLEASE POST WHERE THIS GAME AND YOURS IS SO WE CAN FLOCK TO IT

Quote

07-05-2021 , 04:27 PM

#38

Rebus

journeyman

Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 250

Just playing his hand, no 4bet pre, no c/r flop, check turn..... Doesn't reek of strength to me
Oh yeah I forgot he opened $4 more than his usual preflop so he must be nutted

Quote

07-05-2021 , 06:03 PM

#39

snowman

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,754

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebus

Just playing his hand, no 4bet pre, no c/r flop, check turn..... Doesn't reek of strength to me
Oh yeah I forgot he opened $4 more than his usual preflop so he must be nutted

he doesn't have to be nutted

he doesn't care what you rep
only what he has

you beat nothing

Quote

07-05-2021 , 06:55 PM

#40

Rebus

journeyman

Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 250

I mean you're probably right and a bet is spewy, so take this as an insight into the mind of a breakeven slightly spewy reg (me)

I reckon he gets to the turn, and folds the turn, with all the AK (9), all the JJ (6), maybe some 99 or AJs (say 2)

I reckon he gets to and calls the turn (with his weak sauce line) with AA/KK (be generous and say 4 combos, really he would have 4bet most of them), QQ/1010 (say 1 of each) and AQ (9)

I mean even a zero equity $140 bluff only has to get through what, 40% of the time?

I think he folds at least that much of his range, and we ok equity against his calling range anyway.

So I'm blasting off

Quote

07-05-2021 , 07:03 PM

#41

Amanaplan

acanalpanamA

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 5,628

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowman

They’re everywhere.

Shove or ck back, give up.

Quote

07-05-2021 , 07:04 PM

#42

Amanaplan

acanalpanamA

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 5,628

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowman

They’re everywhere.

AP Shove or ck back, give up. I only say shove bc it’s honestly not clear to me that we can realize equity better by checking more than shoving. The majority of his range is still 1p.

Quote

07-05-2021 , 07:25 PM

#43

JayKon

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,477

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanaplan

They’re everywhere.

Shove or ck back, give up.

Checking back the turn is not giving up.

Quote

07-05-2021 , 07:26 PM

#44

Amanaplan

acanalpanamA

Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 5,628

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayKon

Checking back the turn is not giving up.

Eh, not putting more is what I meant, barring a few rivs.

Quote

07-06-2021 , 12:48 PM

#45

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 14,066

Still not a fan of down betting, but against someone who just plays their hands I guess it's OK. Will he fold JJ and worse for $40? Would he fold them for more?

Turn just depends on my read -- will he fold JJ or a Q or worse? (I never expect him to fold better, but would he have raised flop with better?) If not, check and decide. If so, bet ~$125.

W/o more info, I default to check/decide.

Quote

07-13-2021 , 11:23 AM

#46

spikeraw22

The Situation

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 8,741

Sorry for the delay everyone!

Preflop:

Folds to Jewel who opens for $10. This is larger than normal (That's what she said). Tim and Ronald call. Hero looks down at AK and....

Hero raises to $50. Jewel calls with his small hands (I know). Tim remembers that he actually has to pay rent this month and folds. Ronald looks at me like I'm Gorbachev, says something about how I didn't follow the plan, and folds.

Flop: QT6 ($123)
Jewel consoles a cup of coffee and checks. Hero bets $40. Jewel follows his heart and intuition and calls.

Turn: Q

($203)
Jewel checks again. Hero checks.

River: Q

($203)
Jewel checks one more time. Hero?

Quote

07-13-2021 , 01:16 PM

#47

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 14,066

Check. Jewel would be a fool to fold almost any pair at this point, and I doubt he is calling w/ worse.

The only reason to bet would be to get him off a chop, and it's hardly worth it.

Quote

07-13-2021 , 01:22 PM

#48

weiskoda

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 199

I like a pot-sized bet here rather than a check back. There are too many hands Jewel could have played this way that are ahead but will likely fold to a big river bet (e.g., A/K-10, JJ, AK, 99, 88). And KQ might fold here too. So while we have some showdown value, I say go for it and try to fold out better in this spot! It's possible V is trapping but that's a very patient V to check turn and river and risk that you check back river as well.

Edit: Sent this before seeing Javanewt's post - I can see the merits of a checkback but I'm still voting to pot it here.

Quote

07-13-2021 , 01:33 PM

#49

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 14,066

Quote:

Originally Posted by weiskoda

If I am Jewel, any hand I got here with that beats AK I am calling with on the river. Also, if you bet, I think a pot-size bet induces a call more than a "slightly over half pot" bet. I'd make it look value-heavy.