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PAHWM AKo OTB PAHWM AKo OTB

10-19-2015 , 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sungar78
I'm not opposed to a big turn barrel as a Bluff sometimes. I think we're on the same page though that this vil is not folding KQ+ ott. Still I get what you're saying about having that be your preference over a river Bluff. We would never be checking back AQ+ ott and all of those hands are credibly in our range ott.

The reason I would opt for a river bet as opposed to a turn bet I feel like we need to protect our turn equity and I know that personally my range here would have a fair amount of A/wheel dd, certainly AK, Atdd and even some T9 and 98dd. I'd check all of those ott w similar logic as the AdKx ap.

I'm also checking AJ, TT-77 which I would never bet otr. (I guess AdJx I might still) so I feel like since there's not many hands that I have that check turn and then decide to Bluff river UNIMPROVED specifically that the combos which contain a naked Ad are OK here.

Obviously we don't do it against a calling machine or if our image is on the bad side bc the river Bluff is admittedly kinda thin, but if my image is good and/or winning I would take this line a moderate to high % of the time.
What dd hands besides AdKd can we have here given action?
PAHWM AKo OTB Quote
10-19-2015 , 05:03 PM
Sizing is terrible on every street.

Pre needs to be bigger.

Flop should be smaller or a check back.

Turn is pretty much facepalm.
PAHWM AKo OTB Quote
10-19-2015 , 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SABR42
Flop should be smaller or a check back.
Can you elaborate?
PAHWM AKo OTB Quote
10-19-2015 , 05:16 PM
Gross mistake is preflop. U HAVE to raise more. If u make it 50 to 60$ people will immediately put u on acesm you will take what ever is in there many times...and if called u can confortably pot the flop.

U will get a lot of folds on the flop and worst case ur not that far behind qhen stacks go in.

More pre will make ur decisions easier and simple.
PAHWM AKo OTB Quote
10-19-2015 , 05:21 PM
3bet bigger pre 35 is just a pot sweetener over a raiser and two callers. raise to 55/60

as played check back the flop he will call with a jack even with just a hpsb left.
PAHWM AKo OTB Quote
10-19-2015 , 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kookiemonster
Can you elaborate?
How much are you betting with other hands in your range here?

Do any of those hands need to bet this much? What does betting this much with AK accomplish that a smaller bet wouldn't?
PAHWM AKo OTB Quote
10-19-2015 , 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SABR42
How much are you betting with other hands in your range here?

Do any of those hands need to bet this much? What does betting this much with AK accomplish that a smaller bet wouldn't?
I would cbet 2/3PSB+ w. KQ,AQ,AA,KK,AdKd Maybe less with QQ,JJ, not sure.

Basically just going for fat value here. Nobody is folding TP,a flush draw, OESD, gutter+overs. I realize we have blockers.

With AT,AJ,AK,TT, Ad9d, etc I would tend to bet the same amount to credibly rep those other hands. Often nobody is paying attention though and I feel this is a spew.

At a lot of kiddie tables you can bet like $35 and your V´s will just call and check to you on the turn unless they have 2pair+(even those hands might c/c to slowplay). I see winning LAG´s play like this. They bet small to keep the initiative, see how everyone reacts. Depending on the action, they can go after the pot on the turn or see a free river. If they bink the river they will know how to extract the maximum. If a scare card comes or nobody shows much interest, then can often steal the pot especially if checked to again. Sometimes I feel this is a better overall strategy than big spewy c bets and barrels. Kinda thinking out loud here.

Last edited by kookiemonster; 10-19-2015 at 06:13 PM.
PAHWM AKo OTB Quote
10-19-2015 , 06:30 PM
Thanks for all the responses everyone, here's how the hand ended up.

Flop ($90): QJ2

Villain ($265): Checks
Hero ($365): Bets $50
Villain: Calls

Turn ($190): 6

Villain ($215): Checks
Hero ($315): Bets $65
Villain: Calls

River ($320): 7

Villain ($150): Checks
Hero ($250): Shoves
Villain: Shows AQ & Folds

I agree with all of you that sizing was meh, however I think we need to bet all 3 streets in order for villain to fold river. This hand would have been much better if villain was deeper, then we could bet $110 on turn and shove river. Also I think villain folded because of our image.
PAHWM AKo OTB Quote
10-19-2015 , 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BROKEinCOLLEGElol
River ($320): 7

Villain ($150): Checks
Hero ($250): Shoves
Villain: Shows AQ & Folds
I think this V was some sort of a nit with a fold button. Most of the time, they are not folding for $150 OTR after putting in so much on 3 previous streets.

But such laydowns make you wonder if you played the hand good or just got lucky that he found the fold button. Or if the triple barrel is under-estimated.

In retrospect, your turn sizing looks just okay given you have only $150 left OTR if you were really planning to triple barrel hoping he lays down AQ. You can't really bet something like $100 OTT because it leaves you committed. Although I still prefer check/taking free card on turn.

I only have one question for others: How is $100 a good bet size OTT if we have $215 left, no matter what you have?
PAHWM AKo OTB Quote
10-19-2015 , 07:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BROKEinCOLLEGElol
I agree with all of you that sizing was meh, however I think we need to bet all 3 streets in order for villain to fold river.
Yes we need to bet all 3 streets if we are bluffing, but not when he is left with 150 otr with a pot of 300+. That is a really bad bluff line.

most villains are not folding the river to a half pot sized bet when he's been calling you down so far. Nothing on that board has changed. If he missed a draw, you can show down your ace high.

but luckily you were playing with the worst villain in your room. You won the battle but im sorry to say you're losing the war in the long run. :-/
PAHWM AKo OTB Quote
10-19-2015 , 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000
but luckily you were playing with the worst villain in your room. You won the battle but im sorry to say you're losing the war in the long run. :-/
I agree with this. I think villain leveled himself into folding cause he started asking me questions, I told him I think he has AQ and started joking about how diamonds missed and how I could have been barreling with KT.
PAHWM AKo OTB Quote
10-19-2015 , 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BROKEinCOLLEGElol
I agree with this. I think villain leveled himself into folding cause he started asking me questions, I told him I think he has AQ and started joking about how diamonds missed and how I could have been barreling with KT.
You did a nice job w table talk, but most players just snap here so you often don't get that chance. Glad it turned out well, but yeah, take what you can from the thread, some really good advise here.

AQ is a terrible fold otr if vil called turn

I agree that we needed to 3 barrel to execute this Bluff, but go back to my first post in this thread about how stacks are not right from the start to set up this play enough to make that a profitable option. Otr we can't count on these folds giving our vil whatever it was, 4:1 or 5:1 or whatever it shouldn't matter that AA-JJ are in are range by the time the river hits. All he needs to do is find one Bluff for every 4 combos of those (and he blocks a lot of them also) to make the call

Last edited by sungar78; 10-19-2015 at 08:06 PM.
PAHWM AKo OTB Quote

      
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