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PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep

09-14-2011 , 07:54 PM
Game $3/5, 500 max buy-in

Reads and History

Table: After midnight, table is very active and chatty. Recently did a round of straddles, others straddling voluntarily. Lots of good-sized pots. Typical open is $20, will usually get 2-3 callers. Pots are very often continuing past the flop.

Villain 1 UTG $1500 - woman in her 20's. Has gotten deep by getting people to shove into her AA with their overpairs to nonthreatening boards. 1st hand I happened to walk by and see when she was on 1st must-move 3/5 table (before our table, which is main game) when she got it all in vs KK on Q-high flop. 2nd pot she 3 bet a $20 open to $55, got called by a moderately tilting SB (with JJ) and opener, checked a 10,10,10 flop, and called SB's $200 shove on blank turn. Also saw her open, bet flop, and call raise on drawy flop with TPTK, which held up. Plays mostly straightforward, although on the aggressive side, but will chase and will call raises.

V2 SB $1800 - well groomed middle aged man. Plays both $3/5 and $5/10. Very tricky player. Loves to play big pots. Won a big pot ($900) by check raising on flop with a Double Gutter + Flush draw vs a set. Turned straight, bet out, and set shoved over the top. But I have also seen him call an all-in 3-bet for ~$150-200 pre-flop and lose to a player holding A10 that missed completely.

Hero HJ - $2500. Biggest stack at table. Although two Villains haven't seen me play a ton of hands (since they just arrived at this main game from must-move table in last ~45 minutes), they do have some prior history with me and probably view me as a mostly solid player who can get creative at times, but mostly is playing strong hands in position. Only big hand they've seen me play was a couple of orbits ago, Hero straddled (as part of round of straddles), pot was raised to $40, callled in a couple of spots, SB shoves for $300, Hero wakes up in straddle with KK, which holds up against SB's QQ, so pretty standard.

The Hand

V2 (SB) $1800
(BB)
V1 (UTG) $1500
...
Hero (HJ) $2500
(CO - $250)
(But - $400)


Pre:
V1 - opens for $20 in UTG
folds to Hero.
Hero - in Hijack with A5

Hero?

(It gets better, I promise...)

Last edited by dionysus1; 09-14-2011 at 08:13 PM.
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-14-2011 , 08:07 PM
As long as CO/BUT/SB/BB are not squeeze happy, call.
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-14-2011 , 08:20 PM
If I say fold it would be a very short PAHWM.
If you call, you may get the BTN and/or CO and both blinds to come along.This is not a good hand to play sandwiched.
If you 3!, you can expect to buy the button and play your suited A rag in position.
I would raise to ~ 60 (or fold).
V1's opening range in EP, I assume, does not contain A rag so you have to be able to fold if the flop comes Axx no clubs and there is any action.
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-14-2011 , 08:58 PM
Peronally I would fold but this is a PAHWM so I'm sure we see a flop
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-14-2011 , 09:25 PM
if a typical open of $20 goes 2-3 to the flop and there isn't a lot of 3 betting, I call this all day. I like it better (and am more likely to not just fold the damn thing, as I hate ace-rag) if we are seeing more like 3-5 players on a flop of $20. But in late-ish position, I probably call this.

since we had a COTM a while back about planning a hand, my plan for this hand is to hopefully flop a flush draw or maybe a low flop with a gutshot or something where I could possibly float and take away on the turn?. Ace hi I will proceed with caution and hope to win a small pot. Maybe get lucky and spike 2 pair for a mediumish payoff from a big ace.
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-14-2011 , 09:28 PM
Deep stacked and we have good implied odds versus the villain that raised. As described, villain seems to have problems letting go of TPTK type hands. This seems like an easy call.

We call here if we believe that a) we won't get squeezed frequently and b) we feel that we can extract with our flush when the villain has a middling hand like TPTK or 2pair against a 3-to-a-flush board.

We are looking for the flush draw flop to come in. Probably not going to be raising the flop aggressively with this draw because the villain has described tendencies to shove or 3bet flops when having TP+.
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-14-2011 , 10:00 PM
good implied odds. we may even snag the button too. I'd call looking for lots of clubs, 234, two pair, or trip 5s.
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-14-2011 , 11:50 PM
Unless we're quite (90%) sure there'll be a couple of calls behind us and no raising, we should be folding.
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-15-2011 , 12:44 AM
pretty happy to call here with stacks this deep. we can't 3bet and folding ends the discussion, I like the call.
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-15-2011 , 05:11 AM
3-bombing is fun and profitable if UTG can fold postflop due to buying position with 12BB invested and 300 more behind, but it sounds like she can't, so I would probably call most of the time and try to flop the world but other wise proceed cautiously, assuming this will be a multi-way pot. Occasionally I find the fold button, but probably not this deep against someone who I perceive as straightforward and stationy (she will call down when we have her beat).

Call.
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-15-2011 , 09:01 AM
Surprised how many people have said fold so far. We're very deep here and our hand has nut-potential. I think we can call the raise and even some 3bets provided we're going to have position after the flop.
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-15-2011 , 09:03 AM
To those saying fold, how deep of stacks are you wanting before you play suited aces against a station-y villain?
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-15-2011 , 09:54 AM
lol at folding this 300bb deep. not crazy about a raise as the default line, soooo call.
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-15-2011 , 01:00 PM
lol at someone stacking off with aa on a q high flop for 100bb and on a TTT flop in a 3bet pot being regarded automatically as stationy 300bb deep.

we are rarely going to flush over flush her because she doesnt open much suited non ace hands in utg most likely. like kjcc kqcc maybe qjcc, no sc's. if she has a big pp and the ace hits we earn nothing, etc etc

i dont see much implieds, fold. sc's that can make a disguised 2p/trips/straight >>>>> suited ace here
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-15-2011 , 01:03 PM
I would just call. It's a good hand to play in position with deep stacks. I know I won't go too crazy with it on an Ace high rainbow flop.
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-15-2011 , 01:27 PM
I'd make it $2500
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-15-2011 , 01:53 PM
There are no callers in between, if there are other callers we may very well NOT have position, and we do not have great implied odds against the villian regardless of stack size, I'd fold.

If we had good reads on villian (eg could likely float), if there were callers in between, or if I was bored, then I'd call.

For plan, if there are other callers, then we obv hoping for a big flop and not slowplaying.

If no other callers, continuing on with 2pair+, fd, etc. Barring other reads probably folding Axx or blank flops.
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-15-2011 , 03:06 PM
Given the replies so far that are divided between calling and folding, the "consensus" is that this is a marginal pre-flop spot. I agree. This is very often a fold for me, especially if there has been a lot of squeezing at the table or if there is a shorter stack looking to shove over several calls. I also agree that A5suited is more of a RIO-type hand than a hand like 89suited, since 89 can make a disguised two pair against an overpair, while A5suited that flops an ace is not getting much action from KK/QQ/JJ, while it is getting action from an ace that dominates it.

If I call here, obviously I'm looking to flop two-pair against a big ace, as well as straightening and flushing boards.

Since there hadn't been much squeezing at the table and there were no preloading tells from players to my left, (and my spidey-sense told me that this was going to be PAHWM-worthy hand) I call.

On to the next street.
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-15-2011 , 03:11 PM
Game $3/5, 500 max buy-in

Reads and History

Table: After midnight, table is very active and chatty. Recently did a round of straddles, others straddling voluntarily. Lots of good-sized pots. Typical open is $20, will usually get 2-3 callers. Pots are very often continuing past the flop.

Villain 1 UTG $1500 - woman in her 20's. Has gotten deep by getting people to shove into her AA with their overpairs to nonthreatening boards. 1st hand I happened to walk by and see when she was on 1st must-move 3/5 table (before our table, which is main game) when she got it all in vs KK on Q-high flop. 2nd pot she 3 bet a $20 open to $55, got called by a moderately tilting SB (with JJ) and opener, checked a 10,10,10 flop, and called SB's $200 shove on blank turn. Also saw her open, bet flop, and call raise on drawy flop with TPTK, which held up. Plays mostly straightforward, although on the aggressive side, but will chase and will call raises.

V2 SB $1800 - well groomed middle aged man. Plays both $3/5 and $5/10. Very tricky player. Loves to play big pots. Won a big pot ($900) by check raising on flop with a Double Gutter + Flush draw vs a set. Turned straight, bet out, and set shoved over the top. But I have also seen him call an all-in 3-bet for ~$150-200 pre-flop and lose to a player holding A10.

Hero HJ - $2500. Biggest stack at table. Although two Villains haven't seen me play a ton of hands, they do have some prior history with me and probably view me as a mostly solid player who can get creative at times, but mostly is playing strong hands in position. Only big hand they've seen me play was a couple of orbits ago, Hero straddled (as part of round of straddles), pot was raised to $40, callled in a couple of spots, SB shoves for $300, Hero wakes up in straddle with KK, which holds up against SB's QQ, so pretty standard.

The Hand

V2 (SB) $1800
(BB)
V1 (UTG) $1500
...
Hero (HJ) $2500
(CO - $250)
(But - $400)


Preflop:
V1 - opens for $20 in UTG
folds to Hero.
Hero - in Hijack with A5 calls $20
CO calls $20
SB (V2) calls $20,
BB calls $20

Flop ($100):A53

checks to V1, who bets $40.
Hero - ?
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-15-2011 , 03:37 PM
First of all, if V1 has a range wider than Ak JJ+ (like 2 nice big cards as well or is fairly aggro with larger suited cards too from UTG), then i 3 bet this 100%.

I hope i dont have to explain it. This is a clear 3 bet or fold vs any decently aggressive opener who wont 4 bet light.

AP, I would raise flop for sure around 4x.
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-15-2011 , 03:44 PM
I would raise to 135 or maybe more. Heads-up, I'd consider slowplaying some of the time, but with people behind me who could have any kind of draw, I think I have to raise now to charge whatever draw they might have.

This is what's bad about playing out of relative position, by the way. You have to raise now before, not after, some poor sap calls $40 in between you with his 54 or whatever he has. I disagree with the people who said they'd be more inclined to call preflop if there would be callers behind. Playing out of relative position is a disadvantage.

EDIT: Just saw ANL's post above me. 160 is a good size too.
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-15-2011 , 04:54 PM
*Grunch
Hero raises to $175-220
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-15-2011 , 04:55 PM
If heads-up I think your play would be highly-dependent on how villian views you (you said she may view you as able to get "creative" at some times) so probably would raise.

With 4 other players in, I think you have to raise enough to give others improper odds to draw at flush/str8, while still small enough for pfr to call with AK/AQ type hand. Maybe raise to ~$150. If someone re-raised, I guess it would depend on who. Assuming SB, based on your reads/history with him, I'd probably call flop and get ai on safe turn.
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-15-2011 , 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AintNoLimit
First of all, if V1 has a range wider than Ak JJ+ (like 2 nice big cards as well or is fairly aggro with larger suited cards too from UTG), then i 3 bet this 100%.
It's a great spot for it no doubt.


Raise here to a bunch. I like ~200. If she has AK/AQ/FD we make money, if she has some PP we probably never make money.

Flatting would be pretty horrible here.
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote
09-15-2011 , 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dionysus1
Game $3/5, 500 max buy-in

Reads and History

Table: After midnight, table is very active and chatty. Recently did a round of straddles, others straddling voluntarily. Lots of good-sized pots. Typical open is $20, will usually get 2-3 callers. Pots are very often continuing past the flop.

Villain 1 UTG $1500 - woman in her 20's. Has gotten deep by getting people to shove into her AA with their overpairs to nonthreatening boards. 1st hand I happened to walk by and see when she was on 1st must-move 3/5 table (before our table, which is main game) when she got it all in vs KK on Q-high flop. 2nd pot she 3 bet a $20 open to $55, got called by a moderately tilting SB (with JJ) and opener, checked a 10,10,10 flop, and called SB's $200 shove on blank turn. Also saw her open, bet flop, and call raise on drawy flop with TPTK, which held up. Plays mostly straightforward, although on the aggressive side, but will chase and will call raises.

V2 SB $1800 - well groomed middle aged man. Plays both $3/5 and $5/10. Very tricky player. Loves to play big pots. Won a big pot ($900) by check raising on flop with a Double Gutter + Flush draw vs a set. Turned straight, bet out, and set shoved over the top. But I have also seen him call an all-in 3-bet for ~$150-200 pre-flop and lose to a player holding A10.

Hero HJ - $2500. Biggest stack at table. Although two Villains haven't seen me play a ton of hands, they do have some prior history with me and probably view me as a mostly solid player who can get creative at times, but mostly is playing strong hands in position. Only big hand they've seen me play was a couple of orbits ago, Hero straddled (as part of round of straddles), pot was raised to $40, callled in a couple of spots, SB shoves for $300, Hero wakes up in straddle with KK, which holds up against SB's QQ, so pretty standard.

The Hand

V2 (SB) $1800
(BB)
V1 (UTG) $1500
...
Hero (HJ) $2500
(CO - $250)
(But - $400)


Preflop:
V1 - opens for $20 in UTG
folds to Hero.
Hero - in Hijack with A5 calls $20
CO calls $20
SB (V2) calls $20,
BB calls $20

Flop ($100):A53

checks to V1, who bets $40.
Hero - ?
I'm laying this down, Teddy. Top two pair. It's a monster hand, and I'm gonna lay that down... cuz you got two-four, and I'm not gonna draw against a made hand.
PAHWM: A5 suited in position, deep Quote

      
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