2/5 Motor City Casino, Detroit Mi

Table is playing a little looser than normal for a weekday night, usually this game is tight and tough with nut peddlers on weekdays, but tonight this is a more profitable game than most weekday games. Table is limping more than normal, and a bit loose passive and limpy pre and seen aggressive moves from villains postflop at times.

Hero has a TAG image, was seen raising A9 off in MP so a few villains know my range isnt always top 6% hands preflop as they made comments about it. (FWIW I didnt play a hand for the first 2-3 orbits, and I saw the LP players werent interested in their holdings based on body language. Thought this was a good time to make a raise, possibly IP) Has built his stack from origional buyin of $500 to $660 over a couple hours.

V1 (UTG) $850 is not really TAG, loose-ish preflop, tighter post flop. Seen him fold KQ faceup on a Q high clean board OTT when facing heat, so he understands TPGK is not a stackoff type of hand against tighter villains. Hand reads ok.

No read on 2 random villains who limped.

V2 is loose passive preflop, and fairly aggro post flop. I have seen him make a couple big bets without showdowns over the last hour or so, he has a stacksize almost identical to hero's ($~650)

V1 limps, 2 random villains limp, V2 limps, hero is OTB with TT
Hero...

Option A - $45. Here's what I'm hoping happens. V1 and V2 call. Flop comes all undercards, I get all the $ in as fast as possible. If you're not comfortable stacking off w/ one pair then...

Option B - $10. No one will fold here, but we can set mine, or consider pulling off a massive bluff against V1. We should be able to exploit V1 if we know he requires 2-pair+ to stack off. If he folds so often, should be +EV to bluff him on most boards.

I think if you make it like $30, you're setting yourself up for tough tough spots postflop. Here you'll get probably 5 callers or so and probably can't stack off even w/ an overpair.

What are the stack sizes for the two 'random' villains?

Assuming they are full-stacked, I am raise/folding to $40. Plan is to get HU or max 3-way with position. When we flop a set the plan is obvious. We will flop an over-pair ~ 23% of the time, and I am bet/folding there. I am probably pot-controlling 2nd pair (44% of the time) to try to use position to get to showdown on boards like A72r, etc. as people will happily check down hands like 88 or 44-66 on those boards. Probably will go for one street of value on the river if checked to.

I feel like TT is a bit too strong to set-mine. For instance, TT flops an overpair 25% of the time. 88 flops an overpair 10% of the time... I could go either way if we had 99.

^^^ normal effective stacks, table as a whole was playing 100bb-180bb for the most part. One villain not in hand had only lol 40bb left

Just for discussion purposes, are you ever iso raising here with 77-88 when we have the button? I do this all the time, not sure if its too thin (in general scenarios of course)

I agree with all of that except $40 is a bit too small, and I might not fold to a limp raise depending on villains position, stack, and reads. And I disagree with bet/folding with an overpair. If we can get a ~$150, 3 way pot going to the flop, I think the situation is good enough to stack off w/ an overpair, especially since the two villains for which reads are provided are loose postflop.

$45 is probably OK too. I doubt that people's ranges are elastic between 40 vs. 45. I ISO to $30 @ 2/5 vs. 1 limper and increase from there.

While obviously a lot is board/villain dependent, the basic plan of bet/folding an overpair on low flops is correct @ 2/5 against unknowns. People's calling ranges will be PP-heavy, and people don't bluff that much on average. So while my decision might differ on a very wet board vs. a very dry board, by and large if you think it through and look at your equity, against an unknown, fully-stacked opponent bet/folding an overpair with TT is better than any alternatives. (Your equity will suck if you bet/call, and people love to call so you should bet to get all their marginal pairs/draws/overs to call with poor equity).

$45-$50 ish looks good to me. FWIW, I think I find a flat with <99 here, and occasionally 99 depending on the players.

In weak games where there is no need to range balance no. 77-88 don't flop well enough most of the time and get most of their value from set-value IMO. As for using position to barrel a) I can choose better and worse hands to do it with than small/medium PPs b) people don't seem to like to fold too much, so unless I am exploiting a particular weak-tight opponent(s) I am going to use my smid-PPs to stack people when I hit sets and they can't let go of their 1-pair hands.

A decent hand to ISO and barrel with if you feel like the game affords some fold equity would be weak broadway, like QJo, JTo, KJo, etc. These hands also pick up a bunch of back-doors on a lot of flops, so you have good barrel cards set-up for future streets. Something like 77 rarely picks up additional equity and is really a hit or miss type hand. So say you have QJo. You ISO big to play a positional pot. Flop is T63r. You can barrel turn with any Q,J,9,K and A. That's a lot of good barrel cards. If villain has say 88 he is going to have real trouble getting to showdown against me.

^^ wow that helps so much. Sometimes I get in this leaky frame of mind that "I'm ahead and IP, lets try and take this down". I now see the benefit of being more apt to iso with weaker broadways in these spots.

If the game is really loose passive with not as much FE, are you just mucking offsuit broadways in these spots in the HJ, CO, and BU?

You make yourself way too exploitable when you b/f overpairs. If I'm playing against you, and I notice this, I can begin to raise you with nothing every time and show huge long term profits.

Say we get a $150 3-way flop. Flop comes 873. This is a good bet/ship $85 spot. Unfavorable flops, that we can bet/fold on, include 543, 984 (if we have no heart), ect. But regular ragged flops are good enough to bet/call.

But I've never played 2/5, I'm assuming they play similar to 1/2. If they are MORE aggressive than at 1/2, we should be stacking off lighter since more bluffs are in their ranges.

^^^ FWIW the 2/5 games I have viewed/recently played include more aggressive steals when pots are larger (busted draws), but stackoffs are still not that light, unless the villains think they have more FE, i.e. more sophisticated thinking going on. Don't assume 1/2 and 2/5 play the same, overall in general they really dont. I have seen glaring differences at least in postflop play in my small stint thus far. Preflop, limp folding range is more common at 2/5, but admittedly at least pretty comparable to 1/2.

And b/folding overpairs does not mean we are showing everyone if we muck quietly... So how do you know we are exploitable?

Also on a side note, I noticed vbetting thin on limped pots is not a good idea. I value owned myself a couple times at 2/5 so far by vbetting at first similarly to 1/2, and was looked up by slightly better a good amount of the time, but again, lolsamplesize

No option other than raising makes sense. I like $45.

I'm raising a ton of buttons in this spot. I'd happily play all sorts of hands in position vs l/p preflop. Probably raising just about all broadways. I do agree with setmining small and mid pp's.

Depending on flop texture and villain c/r frequency/range, I plan to c-bet lots of flops.

I find thin value bets work like gold @ 2/5. But I'm usually playing with the initiative especially from LP.

lol really doubt you're going to figure out a way to bluff me more than 30% of the time off an overpair on a 9 handed table. Not to mention we're bet/folding a ton because we know old passive villains aren't shipping their oesd. Against an aggressive villain we obviously play differently.

35-50 range pre imo, pretty standard decision.

@ donk, in limped pots I feel players dont call down as lightly, probably because the pot is not large enough for them to care about making a "hero call"

The 77-88 question is more interesting and I could see it go either way. I'd want to have some sort of idea if there's a possibility of a lrr, how many players probably fold, what my image is, etc. It's close though.

2/5 Motor City Casino, Detroit Mi

Table is playing a little looser than normal for a weekday night, usually this game is tight and tough with nut peddlers on weekdays, but tonight this is a more profitable game than most weekday games. Table is limping more than normal, and a bit loose passive and limpy pre and seen aggressive moves from villains postflop at times.

Hero has a TAG image, was seen raising A9 off in MP so a few villains know my range isnt always top 6% hands preflop as they made comments about it. (FWIW I didnt play a hand for the first 2-3 orbits, and I saw the LP players werent interested in their holdings based on body language. Thought this was a good time to make a raise, possibly IP) Has built his stack from origional buyin of $500 to $660 over a couple hours.

V1 (UTG) $850 is not really TAG, loose-ish preflop, tighter post flop. Seen him fold KQ faceup on a Q high clean board OTT when facing heat, so he understands TPGK is not a stackoff type of hand against tighter villains. Hand reads ok.

No read on 2 random villains who limped.

V2 is loose passive preflop, and fairly aggro post flop. I have seen him make a couple big bets without showdowns over the last hour or so, he has a stacksize almost identical to hero's ($~650)

V1 limps, 2 random villains limp, V2 limps, hero is OTB with TT
Hero raises to $50, v1 folds, other randoms fold, V2 calls.
I made it on the large side bc I think it was partly because there was $27 in the pot and taking it down is still a very good result, and the fact that I can get it HU vs this particular villain alot of the time. He tends to not really care about "pot odds" preflop, and he is not leading the possibility of a string of callers.

Pot: ~$125
Flop comes 664
Villain checks, looks interested in flop, hero??

So villain looks at the flop, not his chips?

Bet 80-100, not too worried. Flop is pretty much as good as it gets w/o a T

^^ looks at his chips while kind of looking towards me afterwards. Looks like a draw hand/hand that doesnt want a lot of heat? Thats what I got out of that type of tell.

nah looking at the chips actually worries me some. He thought about betting.

Problem is that there's a good chance he has 99-22 and thinks we didn't get a piece. We have to bet the flop still, and I'd be shocked if he didn't at least call. (Just based on the chip look as opposed to the fact you made a thread).

I'd probably check AK here if I caught something like that and thought he wasn't acting.

Great flop for your hand. Great flop for villain to make a move. You said villain was fairly aggro post flop. What is he capable of? Does villain like to c/r this type of board? Or float oop and bet any flush card?

I bet 100% of the time in this spot. Since its HU, I'm not afraid of fd since we have position and can pot control bad turns and soul read the river. Depending on villain capabilities I probably keep raising to induce a shove if he's that kind of aggro. So probably weakish 1/2 pot to induce raise. We have position and can use that on scary turns/rivers to evaluate what to do. I don't like flatting a raise as villain is going to view our hand face up. So probably 1/2 pot bet, click it back if he raises the flop.

He's probably at least calling most of his range on this board. If villain does not have tendency to raise this board, then I probably bet larger for value.

If he calls, my plan is to float any turn to steal the pot on the river/value bet thin.
If he calls, my plan is to evaluate the turn card to decide to bet. Probably pot control flush/str8 card by checking behind. Probably pot control any overs. I would need a sense of river bluffing frequency to decide on this. Checking the turn may induce a river bluff from villain on missed draws.

wait, wait wait donk, you're planning on 'floating' I assume checking turn?

Nonononononono no check on the turn if he flats.

No, I plan to float the turn if he leads the turn.
I bet the turn if he checks unless a str8/flush/overcards come. I need to know river bluffing frequency of villain before making that decision. Also turn c/r capability. Its easy to bet/fold vs passive players but this player is aggro. He may decide to turn his hand into a bluff on the river. If he's that type, I want to let him do that.

I don't really want to bet 3 streets if the board comes out ugly. Checking the turn allows for bluff catching the river or repping a hand on the river.

His flop calling range is so wide that we may be able to exploit a river bluff by checking turn.

Floating implies that you have nothing and are planning to steal later streets. That's obviously not what you mean.

^^^ have not seen him c.raise the flop yet tonight fwiw