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PAHWM 1/1 - Lets flop da nuts

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06-11-2014 , 09:17 PM

#26

bwslim69

I'm a Diva, Bruh

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 25,040

I play pretty aggro pre but if these villains are as bad as advertised I assume they play pretty poorly post so I don't see a reason we need to raise pre. Raising is fine but I don't really think it is necessary

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06-11-2014 , 09:18 PM

#27

bwslim69

I'm a Diva, Bruh

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 25,040

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpexDome

I feel compelled to call foul on this thread.

If it's a home game that's playing like this....at these stakes....it's obviously only for fun. Given that, I think it's an exercise in futility to bring any real analysis to this hand.

Was the hand fun to play? Did you like the people at the game? Good sandwiches? Plenty of drinks? Yes? call it a win and put your poker-thinking energy towards the more serious games.

To me, this is the same as posting an online play-money hand. Trying to make sense of it is going to cause your brain to melt down.

Wait wut?

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06-11-2014 , 09:29 PM

#28

Willyoman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 10,468

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpexDome

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwslim69

Wait wut?

Say what you will, but I'm waiting for answers to these pertinent questions.

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06-11-2014 , 09:35 PM

#29

iraisetoomuch

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 37,878

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpexDome

I had a tl;dr response, but long story short, the fact this is a home game doesn't make any difference in our decision to try and make the optimal play.

Quote:

Was the hand fun to play? Did you like the people at the game? Good sandwiches? Plenty of drinks? Yes? call it a win and put your poker-thinking energy towards the more serious games.

To me, this is the same as posting an online play-money hand. Trying to make sense of it is going to cause your brain to melt down.

Can you beat play money?
Can you beat a drunk 1/1 game?

Are you telling me that if these same people went to a casino, and tried to play a 1/2 game and you saw all of them there you wouldn't know the right thing to do? You wouldn't want to know the right thing to do?

Can I play at your table please?

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06-11-2014 , 09:41 PM

#30

Snowball2

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 8,640

I can't beat a drunk 1/1 game

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06-11-2014 , 09:45 PM

#31

daniel9861

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 3,390

Would love to flat to keep BTN in but there's a pretty good chance we don't get stacks in if we just flat. Raise to at least $40. Anything smaller and we might as well flat to keep BTN in.

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06-11-2014 , 09:48 PM

#32

CallMeVernon

COTM Crusher

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 4,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by daniel9861

Would love to flat to keep BTN in but there's a pretty good chance we don't get stacks in if we just flat. Raise to at least $40. Anything smaller and we might as well flat to keep BTN in.

Given the descriptions of this game, we might get cold called by the button even if we do raise.

There is no good reason to slowplay here.

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06-11-2014 , 09:53 PM

#33

bwslim69

I'm a Diva, Bruh

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 25,040

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willyoman

Say what you will, but I'm waiting for answers to these pertinent questions.

Sammiches are important

Quote:

Originally Posted by CallMeVernon

Given the descriptions of this game, we might get cold called by the button even if we do raise.

There is no good reason to slowplay here.

I agree

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06-11-2014 , 10:06 PM

#34

AcePlayerDeluxe

1st Gear Pinned

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19,252

Quote:

Originally Posted by CallMeVernon

Given the descriptions of this game, we might get cold called by the button even if we do raise.

There is no good reason to slowplay here.

I don't think he will. If I put in another bet he (V2) would fold just about all hands but a slow played set and of course made straight. He could find a fold with 2pr here. Tight passive guy (V1) is pretty much always big here... The one problem with him is he can get mubsy when facing aggression. Not that he would fold to my flop bet if he has a set, but he will slow down on other streets. This is the kind of guy we pull street poker out on.

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06-11-2014 , 10:08 PM

#35

AcePlayerDeluxe

1st Gear Pinned

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19,252

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpexDome

I feel compelled to call foul on this thread.

If it's a home game that's playing like this....at these stakes....it's obviously only for fun. Given that, I think it's an exercise in futility to bring any real analysis to this hand.

Was the hand fun to play? Did you like the people at the game? Good sandwiches? Plenty of drinks? Yes? call it a win and put your poker-thinking energy towards the more serious games.

To me, this is the same as posting an online play-money hand. Trying to make sense of it is going to cause your brain to melt down.

I can't comment just yet if hand was fun to play. I like people at the game, but I like their money more. The sammies were actually good that night. No drinks. Maybe you are a V from this game? You have to be. You knew about the eff delicious sammies!!!

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06-11-2014 , 10:09 PM

#36

Garick

Oberbiergenießer

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 27,336

Wasn't trying to start a derail, just make a point that there is no such thing as ISO in this game.

All of these players think that they are good at poker. All are trying to win money. The T6s guy, for example, thinks it's great because "nobody expects that hand," and "I always get paid if I hit."

Game plays much more normally post flop, but pre is laughably loose.

Sandwiches are meh, and it's BYOB, but at least it has a dealer and it's not raked.

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06-11-2014 , 11:10 PM

#37

bulls_horn

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 4,406

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garick

Wasn't trying to start a derail, just make a point that there is no such thing as ISO in this game.

What does this have to do with raising? (Which was the thesis for your "derail" post).

Are you going to ISO with a 3-5x raise pre? Almost never. Surprised if you even get it down to 3-way.

BUT...The pot will be 2-3x bigger otf, enabling you to lead right in and start building a pot.

Trying to ISO is not always the reason to raise pre. In fact, trying to do this without a non-top 10ish hand is -ev imo.

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06-11-2014 , 11:25 PM

#38

SABR42

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 23,313

Spewtards ITT.

Pre is a fold.

I'd only call this on the button.

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06-11-2014 , 11:53 PM

#39

Thamel18

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 10,223

I'm definitely 3-betting this flop. Villain's raise size doesn't scream strong, but that doesn't matter. He doesn't understand bet sizing. His choice to raise a bettor and caller on a rainbow board is strength enough. I make it $40 to set up two reasonably sized bets to get him all in on the river. There's way too many scare cards that kill our value (or our hand) versus 2pairs and sometimes the occasional set, and giving V2 such sweet odds to draw just seems criminal here.

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06-12-2014 , 12:06 AM

#40

andees10

veteran

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,282

Sabr-all conditions the same ($ in pot, #of players, etc.) are you typically folding this in the sb as well? (assuming .5bb)

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06-12-2014 , 12:12 AM

#41

iraisetoomuch

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 37,878

Pretty sure I'm more likely to fold this in the SB than I am in the CO.
Position is worth so much more than .5bb/hand.

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06-12-2014 , 12:24 AM

#42

Lapidator

LLSNL Frequent Flyer

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 13,762

Quote:

Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch

Pretty sure I'm more likely to fold this in the SB than I am in the CO.
Position is worth so much more than .5bb/hand.

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06-12-2014 , 01:07 AM

#43

SABR42

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 23,313

In the SB you have to go through just BB checking his option.

In the CO you have to through 3 players not raising.

I'd only play this if I saw that button was folding prematurely.

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06-12-2014 , 01:46 AM

#44

daniel9861

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 3,390

^ Wouldn't it also depend a lot on just how bad the other players are postflop? Today I played with someone who checked back the king high flush on a 3 diamond non paired board on the river but bet the river in another hand and was caught bluffing. Against him I figured limping behind anything playable in position was profitable because of how badly he played rivers and made up for the EV lost preflop.

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06-12-2014 , 07:51 AM

#45

samo

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,254

Quote:

Originally Posted by AcePlayerDeluxe

I don't think he will. If I put in another bet he (V2) would fold just about all hands but a slow played set and of course made straight. He could find a fold with 2pr here. Tight passive guy (V1) is pretty much always big here... The one problem with him is he can get mubsy when facing aggression. Not that he would fold to my flop bet if he has a set, but he will slow down on other streets. This is the kind of guy we pull street poker out on.

I thought V2 descript was "stationy post" ... you think he could fold 2pr to a raise?

Quote

06-12-2014 , 09:06 AM

#46

AcePlayerDeluxe

1st Gear Pinned

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19,252

Quote:

Originally Posted by samo

I thought V2 descript was "stationy post" ... you think he could fold 2pr to a raise?

He is.... But I also said he will give up if he faces a bunch of pressure (aka big bets). If I start mashing money in the pot he is done. So yes, if tight passive nit c/r's from the SB and I 3bet the c/r he will dump 2pr. He'll hate life, but he will dump.

Quote

06-12-2014 , 10:14 AM

#47

au4all

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,872

Quote:

Originally Posted by AcePlayerDeluxe

Do you think his check-raise is more likely a draw or a made hand? I think if Villains are drawing we need to raise. If they both have draws we could be losing this hand almost half the time:

Board: 9h 5d 8c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 56.311% 56.31% 00.00% 7174013 0.00 { 76o }
Hand 1: 16.661% 16.16% 00.50% 2059125 63547.50 { QdJd }
Hand 2: 27.028% 26.53% 00.50% 3379973 63549.00 { JhTh }

I'd raise to 50 (or 55). If they have PokerStove, I wouldn't expect them to fold their draws even if your hand was face-up.

Quote

06-12-2014 , 10:33 AM

#48

AcePlayerDeluxe

1st Gear Pinned

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19,252

Quote:

Originally Posted by au4all

V1's c/r is almost always a set. I think he leads 2pr, although he might c/r this every once in a while. It's not a draw. I put it at almost 0% that it is a draw.

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06-12-2014 , 11:09 AM

#49

PhillyEagles9

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 628

I am not sure he would fold a set ever here. Raise to 50. If board pairs them u gotta take caution

Quote

06-12-2014 , 11:52 AM

#50

Lapidator

LLSNL Frequent Flyer

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 13,762

FPS...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace

We're 200bb deep with the nuts. Raise. If everyone folds... 1) now you know why to raise pre, and 2) increase your bluffing frequency.

Nobody is folding 2p. Nobody is folding a set. And as long as you don't go crazy and shove, nobody is folding T9, QJ, 87, TT. Even A9s, A8s, A5s will still come along sometimes.

If nobody has a hand good enough to continue OTF, then you're not likely to get any $$$ in OTT.

The pot is limped pre, and we flop the world, but cannot figure out how to get $$$ into the pot? What good was it to play the hand in the 1st place?

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