Playing a £1/£1 cash game in UK.

Generally these games are quite loose with lots of players calling down with crazy draws, people who pay little attention to bet-sizing or pot size when making decisions. Would not be uncommon to see PF bet of £7 or £8 called in 4-5 spots.

My tactics in these games are generally to see flops with suited connectors and small pairs to try and win big pots vs players unable to lay down big hands. If I get a big hand I make sure I raise large to get value.

Tactics have been not very successful and I have seen big swings over last few weeks. This may be a seperate topic but I seem to be leaking a lot of money with these constant calls of £3-4-5 and then missing completely. Also I feel I sometimes over-analyise and level myself quite a bit.

My table image at this time is probably someone who calls a lot PF, raises only occasionally and will often fold on the flop.

Villian in the situation is not the usual type of player, plays fewer hands than most and seems to play aggressively when he does play, often 3-betting PF and continuing on flop and later streets. From the way he speaks he understands pot and bet sizes and likely posts on 2+2. Villian also understands ranges.

I have played 1 big hand vs villian. I had QQ and made it £9 PF. He called. Flop came 10 - 8 - 2. I led for pot sized bet and villian called. Turn was a 6. I checked and villian checked. River was a J and I checked and Villian bet £31. I called and he showed JJ.

The Hand in Question

I am going to skip to the flop.

In this hand Villian opened for £4 UTG +1 and got 2 callers and I called in the SB. I was holding A7.

Flop came A 7 8

Hero ?????

Prob fold pre cos it just doesn't make good hands anywhere near often enough and you get yourself in a lot of crappy spots, esp OOP.

As played, c/r, and c/r big. They ain't folding any draws and prob aren't folding any Ax either.

Edit: You're likely to get more money in the pot by c/r rather than donking and also it's not the kind of board you want to be playing slowly with what is a pretty vulnerable hand.

Edit 2: Oh, and bet the turn with your QQ.

Fold this in SB to an EP raise. He's probably never raising worse aces from EP so that's pretty bad for you.

If I do check and he bets does raising not just fold out all of his bluffs and possibly even some other A * hands he may have?

Well yeah it folds out all his bluffs, but then for that to be an issue he'd have to be bluffing you a ton on the turn and river. Also on a lot of turns and rivers your hand turns from a semi-monster into a bluffcatcher. Your hand will very quickly start to look pretty crappy, esp OOP, on about half the deck when he starts to barrel.

As far as his Ax, most of it will be pretty good as he's raised from EP and the boards pretty wet so I can't see him folding to one raise too often.Given that he "understands ranges" he'll prob be likely to put you on a decent amount of draws which gives you even more chance of him calling down.

Plus, there are plenty of draws he can have too.

What are stack sizes?

My action would depend on how deep we are. 50bb effective vs. 100bb or 200bb has a huge difference here.

This is true. I was just kinda assuming 100bb-ish. Although I'm still c/raising in most situations.

Yeha, stacks super important here. Also, what about other V's in hand? Will main V c-bet into 3 players on this board if checked to?

I had £250 behind and he had about the same!

That deep I donk out a small bet that looks like I'm trying to set a price for a draw and look to induce a raise. Bet like 1/3-1/2 pot.

I checked and villain bet 10. I called for the following reasons which may be flawed:

I felt if he was just c-betting with air my call would make my hand look like a draw and I could get more from him if the turn came neutral.

I felt if he had a big A then again he would fire on the turn with a neutral card.

Turn card was a 6c

Slow plying self to death ITT. Let me guess, you checked looking for him to bet his big ace and then you'd min-raise to try to keep it in, but he checked behind and left you lost OTR.

Not trying to be a jerk, but backwards play is seldom a good idea.

Yeah have to agree. This spot now is exactly why flatting pre OOP with crappy hands then playing passively when you do it (on a fairly wet board that Villain could very well have a decent part of) is gonna get you into trouble.

As played, I think I just go into bluffcatcher mode and c/c down. Turn raise looks way stronger than a flop raise so you're not likely to get as many light peels if you start getting aggro now.

Is he double barreling his air? If not, there is no reason to try and keep it in at the cost of getting value from made hands.

Also there are not many good turn cards for you. 4-J, plus diamonds are bad for him and could slow him down. K and Q are bad for you. So the only neutral cards are non diamond 2 and 3.

Pre has to be terrible

A few questions:

I was aware PF that my position was poor but does getting just under 5-1 not count for anything?

Judging by my description and as played so far what range of hands would you assign to villain?

Pre: meh. You have good immediate odds, but terrible position and a likely dominated hand.

V's range: Right now? V's range is AJ+ 77+ He raised early and c-bet into 4 players, he likely has at least a pair. If he bets turn, we'll know a bit more, but for right now, meh. Still, you're never getting another dime out of anything that's not top pair+, and there's not many sets and basically no 2p in his range here, so you should be planning your hand around the most likely holding, big aces. b/3b flop>c/r flop>c/c flop.

I think c/r flop is better as if you lead they might just call.

Preflop is terrible as we have to absolutely smash the flop to win due to our position. Too often we end up peeling a street or two and then folding when faced by a big bet on an ace high board.

Position is so more important than "pot odds" in big bet poker (talking about preflop). You're going to lose big pots with kicker problems with hands like A7, and these pots will lose more money than you'll make flopping two pair.

And when you do flop two pair, your position prevents you from winning a big pot anyway.

Getting 5-1 means you have to win 1 out of 6 times to be profitable, and the dollar amount of that 1 win has to be more than the amount you lose the other 5 times. Can you see how hard that's going to be?

Thanks for the feedback. I think it is safe to assume my PF play was far from ideal and I should have had a fairly simple c/r strategy on the flop. I feel that sometimes I try and be too clever and end up giving myself more trouble than its worth.

As played though:
In this hand Villian opened for £4 UTG +1 and got 2 callers and I called in the SB. I was holding A7.

Flop came A 7 8

Villain bet 10 and I called

Turn 6

On the turn I checked and villian bet £26

Hero ?????

Just call it down, especially if he is only going to half pot river also. If you raise here, you are only folding hands you beat anyway.

Again, because of your horrible position, you can only make money by c/c ing down, hoping he bets river with a hand you can beat....

Can we stop talking about pre and get to the interesting part of the hand? Yes, fold pre is 100% the right play, especially OOP against what sounds like a competent pre flop raiser who is unlikely to pay you off big unless he has Ax and you make two pair vs his one pair or something like that.

I think Garick's suggestion to bet 1/3-1/2 to induce a raise is not very good if we don't have a read he'll raise the flop with Ax. He's more likely to flat with that, in my opinion. If we're going to lead, we lead out for 3/4-full pot.

If we're going to check, I think it's pretty clearly a check/raise if there is a bet and call to you, it's too likely someone has a draw or Ax that will keep paying you (and you can't let them see the turn for free). If it's just you vs the initial raiser, I think check/calling has merit if you think (a) he'll just bet/bet/bet with most of his range and (b) he has the ability to fold Ax here.

My bias would be to check/evaluate on the flop.

On the turn, think about his range; what draws are in it? Not much if he's a tight player raising UTG+1 since the Ad is on the board. I think it's clearly a check to let him bet his ace.

So on the turn, I have to confess I was feeling confident that he had a big A. I was aware that there were other potential hands in his range but to be honest I was not thinking about them too much. I was thinking about how to get the maximum value out of a hand like AK. My thought process was that:

1. If I raise he only calls with better.

2. If I call it is dangerous but if the right card falls I can get huge value from A K/Q/J on the river.

So I called and the river came an 8d, counterfitting my 7 and also bringing 3 diamonds onto the board.

Ad 7d 8h 6c 8d

Hero ??????

Prob correct on the turn, hence why you need to start getting money in on the flop instead. You get much less credit for aggro flop play.
You're not going to get huge value. He's either going to check behind or bet like half pot then fold to a shove most of the time.

Check/fold, or huge donk bet if you're feeling fruity and are confident of a) your read that he's got Ax and b) he'll fold it. C/shove isn't going to work enough imo cos he'll prob convince himself that he's committed, plus he may actually have a boat/flush.

C/f is prob the favourite though. Then make a note of why you don't play crappy offsuit aces in the first place, esp if you're going to play them passively OOP when you flop big on a wet board.

check/fold.

Ah, counterfeiting, one of the many perils of having a crappy kicker.

Next time you call out of position with A7o, you'll have to win the current size of the pot 1 out of 5 times (or whatever the pot odds dictate), PLUS the amount you lost on this hand, to show a net profit.