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overpair on wet board deep overpair on wet board deep

03-27-2012 , 10:20 AM
first thread i make, so please be kind with some editing errors i make

game is 1/2, 9handed, often straddles, pretty good action.

villain is a regular, white, 50, normally pretty solid, today pretty wasted, full of stories, having a good time, making moves, down a lot. when the money went in big, he usually has a solid hand, not sure on that day though.

hero usually has image as somewhat tight agressive, a little bluffy, this day i played pretty laggy, especially against villain, cause i had position on him.

history: hand one i raised with KJ LP, villain calls from BB, flop A73r, i cbet, he calls, check check turn, he leads river, i fold, he shows QJo.
hand two i overbet turn allin on a QJ75 board with KQ, he called with AJ.
also squeezed him a couple of times.

stacks: hero 500, maybe up 100, just lost a pretty big grouse hand where i got drawn out on. villain a bit more than 400, down a lot, but on a little upswing.

few limps, villain raises to 10 on button, sb folds, hero in BB raises 42, everyone folds. villain says "alright, give me a 4 then, and we have a big pot!" and calls.

so the flop comes 489
hero leads 52, villain pretty much instaraises to 130.
hero?
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03-27-2012 , 10:43 AM
instafold smile say you missed -- V's hand is faceup.
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03-27-2012 , 10:53 AM
Um... What do we have? I guess it doesn't really matter as 1010-AA is essentially the same hand OTF.

I'm folding here as people typically don't snapraise to 130$ without a monster
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03-27-2012 , 10:53 AM
another piece of information i forgot to mention.
few orbits ago hero raised UTG with AK, got raised allin from shortstack with about 40 left, villain calls, hero moves in for the rest of villains stack (130 approx.).
villain tanked and says " i would call if i know u had AK", i asked " what did u have " he said "96 suited, i promise i call if u promise u have AK", i think well ok, promise to him, he calls with 96, misses, loses, rebuys.
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03-27-2012 , 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobFarha
Um... What do we have?
haha, sorry, we got two black kings
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03-27-2012 , 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobFarha
Um... What do we have? I guess it doesn't really matter as 1010-AA is essentially the same hand OTF.

I'm folding here as people typically don't snapraise to 130$ without a monster
I agree with the fold, but 10s/JJ/QQ are blockers for combo draws V might be playing aggressively, no? Tough spot though; I probably fold as we're crushed by a lot of his range and flipping with and sort of combo draw he may have.
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03-27-2012 , 08:21 PM
So qq is a better hand to have here than AA?
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03-27-2012 , 08:23 PM
if he had A4cc we could conceivably shove queens.

as played it's a fistpump fold imo.
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03-27-2012 , 08:41 PM
do we really give him credit for 44 here? Just because he called for a four?

If that's the case, I should call for fake card every flop. If you hit your set, you get paid. If you hit the fake card you call out, you get to make people fold over pairs.
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03-27-2012 , 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ValueBluff
do we really give him credit for 44 here? Just because he called for a four?

If that's the case, I should call for fake card every flop. If you hit your set, you get paid. If you hit the fake card you call out, you get to make people fold over pairs.
and how long until your opponents caught on to that game? pretty fast.
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03-27-2012 , 08:48 PM
What's a reasonable range for the villain here?
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03-27-2012 , 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobFarha
So qq is a better hand to have here than AA?
Its much better imo. If you have A then he can't have NFD. And with QQ you have 2 of his outs when he has a straight draw. A redraw when he hits the top half of his straight draw. And a backdoor FD. When AA just has the redraw and blocks him from having NFD which is otherwise one of the hands we have solid equity against and see fairly often.
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03-27-2012 , 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobFarha
So qq is a better hand to have here than AA?
Not necessarily in this instance since you would have the backdoor nutflush draw.

I'm saying if you had TT or JJ (especially if you have a club as well) here, you'd diminish the # of combinations of combo draws he'd have here, giving more weight to the rest of his range (sets mainly) that have hero crushed.

Again, OOP, this is a tough call. If he does have a hand like A4 you're the underdog - the only hands I think might be played this way that you beat are JJ/QQ that V suddenly chose to play aggressively.
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03-27-2012 , 11:59 PM
I wouldn't fold here if it were 100 BB ES, but we're 200 BB deep which changes things.

I also don't usually give credit to villains when they call for a card to flop. Usually, when they call for a 4, they really want the 6. Poker players tend to lie for some reason.

The thing that wants to make me fold though is that according to your history with villain, he's passive. He's a caller, not a raiser. And you said that when the money went in big, he had a solid hand.

With all this in mind, I don't think he raised a bunch of limpers pre with 44. If he did though, I do believe he'd call your 3bet. But if he had a set, I'd be more worried about 99 than 44. Might even be possible he has AA.

It's real close. You're playing for stacks here. If you call and check turn, you have to know he's probably betting again. That means you have to decide now whether you're ok playing for 200 BB with just an overpair. Normally, that's a losing play.

It's tough, but part of me feels like he's bluffing here.
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03-28-2012 , 04:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyDonk
I wouldn't fold here if it were 100 BB ES, but we're 200 BB deep which changes things.

I also don't usually give credit to villains when they call for a card to flop. Usually, when they call for a 4, they really want the 6. Poker players tend to lie for some reason.

The thing that wants to make me fold though is that according to your history with villain, he's passive. He's a caller, not a raiser. And you said that when the money went in big, he had a solid hand.

With all this in mind, I don't think he raised a bunch of limpers pre with 44. If he did though, I do believe he'd call your 3bet. But if he had a set, I'd be more worried about 99 than 44. Might even be possible he has AA.

It's real close. You're playing for stacks here. If you call and check turn, you have to know he's probably betting again. That means you have to decide now whether you're ok playing for 200 BB with just an overpair. Normally, that's a losing play.

It's tough, but part of me feels like he's bluffing here.
thanks for all the replying!

so if u think he is bluffing, what would be the better line? would u just ship it since the board is wet, or would you call and let him bluff again?
if i decide to go with the hand, i would rather ship it here, since we are OOP, and many turn cards are bad for us when we might get bluffed. on the other hand, if we put him on air, we might as well check to him and snap his bet when a scare card occurs..
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03-28-2012 , 04:53 AM
Villain is down a lot, making moves, wet board with just about a billion semi-bluffing hands, good overpair, and we want to fold? I don't see it.
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03-28-2012 , 05:07 AM
I call. Its hard to hit sets.
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03-28-2012 , 05:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by masaraksh
I call. Its hard to hit sets.
whats your line there? call or move in?
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03-28-2012 , 06:47 AM
I'm putting him on like 45o so I'm jamming
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03-28-2012 , 07:53 AM
Ok, following happened:
given his state of mind i was never really considering folding and shoved allin. he thought for a long time, and then tank-folded 77. i guess he wanted to "know where he´s at" by raising.
so i posted the hand mainly to get an answer to the question if we decide to go with the hand, should we move in? or just call and let him bluff away his money, since his range apparently is not only sets and draws, but also pretty much air a lot...
does it change if we are in position?
thanks for all the replies
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