Villain is a solid reg and knows what he's doing. He sees me as solid too, but might be aware that I don't usually play 2/2 and instead play the 1/1 game (European casino). The game has been quite lively so far with lots of 3betting and squeezing.

Blinds: €2/€2. Straddle is often in play but not this hand.
Stacks: Hero has €420, Villain covers. You can buy in for 200BB in this game, which most players do.

Hero is in early position with KK, raises to €10, folds to Villain who makes it €32. Folds rounds to Hero who makes it €82.

Flop (€168):
Qx 6d 7d

Hero thinks and bets €60. Villain thinks and calls.

Turn (€288):
9x

Hero?

Thoughts on pre and flop welcome too. Remaining stacks are €278 effective if my numbers are right.

Is the turn a shove or is that in danger of turning our hand into a bluff? If we want to get stacks in, is check-shove better? Board is starting to look a bit scary but we needn't worry to much about straights and flushes in a 4bet pot right? Unless it's Ad Kd - which might shove pre?

If villain bets all-in, are you calling or folding? Calling a 4-bet is pretty strong. That's usually QQ or AA, and almost never KK. If we're betting flop and get called, it's to GII OTT with the SPR of 1 left. Betting flop here and checking turn is bad. Either bet-bet, or X/R all-in.

I think I might x turn if I had the Kd. Otherwise I'm jamming turn. I'm assuming from OP's last comment that he doesn't hold the Kd.

Oop and 210bb deep, I would 4-bet bigger, like €100-120.

OTF, it is all about defining V's calling range to a 4-bet.
If it is made usually of QQ and AA, as Hardball47 suggests and I tend to agree with, then this flop is a disaster for us and, although counter-intuitive, I think we should check, hoping for a check back. In order to justify a bet, we have to include at least some AK, possibly JJ, and hopefully AQs.

As played flop, if we bet turn we have obviously to gii, but which worse hands can call? Only AQs and AdKd, assuming none of those raise/jam earlier.
If we check and V shoves, again we beat only AdKd and AQs.
Tough spot, it really depends if V can call the 4-bet pre with AQs (which seems to me pretty unlikely if our reads are correct).

I think he’s flatting the 4bet with any hand that he chose to 3bet because you made the 4bet so small. You said there’s a lot of 3betting at this table, so he should have AQs in his preflop range, and maybe also KQs/AQo. He can also have AdKd. He might even call flop with JJ given you cbet so small. We beat a fair bit of his range on the turn and the SPR is low.

If we check and he jams we have to call because he could have AQ or AKdd, and SPR is low.

betting is usually better than check/call if we don’t expect V to have a high bluffing frequency (and in a 4bet pot, I don’t think he would bluff all that much).

Considering all that, it’s a jam for me.

This

Do u really think live villains aren’t calling a 2.5x 4bet with JJ/AK in position?

If his range continuing to the 4bet is only QQ/AA then I would question if we should really 4bet in the first place.

In a game with a lot of 3 betting, I think this is a clear cut GII. Villain will continue with most of his range to such a small 4 bet and might even call a bit wider. Villain could be continuing with J10, AQ, AK, AA, QQ, other one combo of KK(highly unlikely), flush draws, and might even be in there with J9 nd Q9 suited, etc... Some of the lower continuing range will have to be player dependent. Is this villain capable of calling a 4 bet at the bottom of his range? Never played in Europe but villains showing up with J9 suited in the US is very common even to a 4 bet (in small stakes).

This.

If there’s lots of 3betting going on and villain only calls our 4bet with QQ+, we should 4bet an absurdly high percentage of the time. But not with precisely KK.


As played, it’s important to note the Qx which means he can have AQ/KQ/QJdd if we assume he doesn’t fold that against the small 4bet. I’m shoving the turn.

4-bet is too small, which makes this hand tougher to play. As played, I'd go a bit bigger on flop. 4-bet and flop size makes turn awkward and gives him a good price with almost anything.

Turn is so awkward now. I don't think I'm ever folding. It seems he'd try to gii pre w/AA or AKs, so we are really only behind QQ and maybe 99. Bet or check then shove/call are both fine with me.

If it goes check/check, river is obviously an evaluate. In game, I probably just shove.

OP says villain is solid and sees H as solid too.
Yes, he may call with JJ and AK, although JJ is already quite marginal and I would expect AK to mix 5bet/jam (just like AA). On the other hand, calling with for instance AQo is plain wrong, imo.

Anyway, ott both JJ and AK will fold to a second barrel and would most likely check back if H checks, aside of AKdd. Or would a solid V jam turn with JJ because "he put H on AK"? Idk.

Then, in game I also would probably shove turn, and most probably call a shove, because "wtf, I have KK on a Q-high board", but thinking about it, this is a marginal spot at best. Always imo.

By the way, the fact that a game has a lot of 3bets going on, does not imply that people 4bet light, nor that they call 4bets light.