***Official "It Lives, It Lives" Chat Thread*** - Page 614 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

Aggressive reads it only takes one hand for me to know the guy is a donk.

11t even though you think a flop hits your perceived villains range. His range can't face heat vs your perceived range. I keep telling you can't let your loose opponents see free cards when you're the pfr. That "so called cooler" is a clear example that you're playing weak ABC tag. Which is not optimal vs the typical low stakes villain.

05-19-2012 , 01:14 PM

#15327

masaraksh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 5,250

I think part of the reason I called was cuz I was stuck at that point in the session (i know this is a huge leak) but another big reason was that this villain had a history of making non-sensical aggressive actions.

I can safely say that against many "level headed" players at this level calling a 1k river bet with J9 on J94,A,T you will never be good (against some it's even possible to find a fold to the C/R)

Even against this guy, I think J9 is the absolute worst hand I can call the river with.... And even then... Puke!

05-19-2012 , 01:18 PM

#15328

JMurder3

not god, probably jebus

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 53,649

Yes...one can quickly tell if someone is a donk. It's dangerous and wrong to group all donks into one group, and play against them all in the same way, though.

One has to have a lot of nuance in their donk reads in order to optimize one's lines. Just because donks don't think about poker the right way doesn't mean they aren't thinking SOMETHING. If we can figure out which exact form of donk logic they're using, we're in much better shape.

05-19-2012 , 01:24 PM

#15329

dhcg86

banned

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 12,410

well my point is that if hes ever overvaluing 1p hands then we should shove turn, cause hes obv not folding and we beat alot of his range

05-19-2012 , 01:33 PM

#15330

JMurder3

not god, probably jebus

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 53,649

"Overvaluing 1 pair hands" sounds good, but is entirely dangerous unless you have evidence that they CALL too much with 1 pair hands, particularly in 3-bet pots. Many players will be the aggressor, but will not call off their $.

As I said, one needs a more nuanced read than that, especially before shoving in such a marginal spot. Especially not even knowing effective stacks.

05-19-2012 , 01:44 PM

#15331

dhcg86

banned

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 12,410

I disagree that many players are c/r the turn here only to fold to a shove.

sorry, but I dont buy it

05-19-2012 , 01:45 PM

#15332

masaraksh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 5,250

In a way the hand is a fluke since I think a really strong argument can be made that against most players "1k river betting range" I am cooked.

Dhcg, I agree he prolly calls off, but at the same time the pot is ~300 OTT with 2k behind so bet/shoving J9 there
is kinda thin.

05-19-2012 , 01:47 PM

#15333

SeaUlater

banned

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,797

masaraksh, you really need to post these hands in their own threads...way too hard to follow them here.

05-19-2012 , 01:57 PM

#15334

JMurder3

not god, probably jebus

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 53,649

Now we're getting more into the read that he thinks he calls off light too, and the effective stacks.

The point of my posting isn't that one way or the other is wrong, the point is that one needs more than those 2 hands to make all those assumptions, and it's a huge leak in even many good players' games to jump to conclusions based on un-nuanced reads.

05-19-2012 , 02:18 PM

#15335

dhcg86

banned

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 12,410

what do you guys think of tipping?

05-19-2012 , 02:25 PM

#15336

masaraksh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 5,250

^ since the smallest chips in play (here) are 5 Francs I only tip in big pots (at least 1k)

05-19-2012 , 02:27 PM

#15337

SeaUlater

banned

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,797

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhcg86

what do you guys think of tipping?

What's with you and tipping?

There are things in life that you overlook to make life less stressful and easier. As you grow older, you might grasp such concept better.

05-19-2012 , 02:34 PM

#15338

BigSkip

The Situation

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 20,065

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMurder3

Yes...one can quickly tell if someone is a donk. It's dangerous and wrong to group all donks into one group, and play against them all in the same way, though.

One has to have a lot of nuance in their donk reads in order to optimize one's lines. Just because donks don't think about poker the right way doesn't mean they aren't thinking SOMETHING. If we can figure out which exact form of donk logic they're using, we're in much better shape.

Bingo. Figure out their line of thinking, and you can print money off of them. Treat all donks the same, and expect some real rude surprises.

05-19-2012 , 02:35 PM

#15339

dhcg86

banned

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 12,410

isnt 2p2 about helping people win more money at poker?

05-19-2012 , 02:35 PM

#15340

BigSkip

The Situation

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 20,065

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhcg86

what do you guys think of tipping?

I think it is a basic cost of playing the game. Dealers gotta eat too.

05-19-2012 , 02:39 PM

#15341

DevinLake

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 17,026

Quote:

Originally Posted by SABR42

what is this I don't even

And 3-betting turn seems super bad to me

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokahAllday

So, just raise and triple every time to avoid being weak ABC tag? Because cbet giving up is bad. cbet double barreling and giving up is bad. Which leaves check back or triple barrel.

If he had of done that then nut flush vs straight flush was is a cooler, but because he checked the flop it's not a cooler?

You have so many one liners to critique peoples play with no substance behind them.

05-19-2012 , 02:39 PM

#15342

SeaUlater

banned

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,797

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhcg86

isnt 2p2 about helping people win more money at poker?

Duh. What are you trying to say? Just come out and say it...

05-19-2012 , 02:44 PM

#15343

dhcg86

banned

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 12,410

tipping kills ur winrate and is bad for the game

05-19-2012 , 02:45 PM

#15344

SeaUlater

banned

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,797

You're the type that refuses to straddle when everyone at the table is straddling and having fun. Now that's bad for the game.

Eating out lowers your win rate, driving instead of taking the bus lowers your win rate, going out to movie instead of renting DVD lowers your win rate, watching TV or doing anything less constructive instead of reading poker books lowers your win rate...

I can go on and on. What's your point?

05-19-2012 , 03:03 PM

#15345

SeaUlater

banned

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,797

Ewwww, picking your nose in front of millions.

05-19-2012 , 03:09 PM

#15346

dhcg86

banned

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 12,410

lol how do u know about what I do in regards to straddling. I usually do a round of straddling or double straddle or even triple

anyway, Im here to make money in poker, whyre you here?

05-19-2012 , 03:11 PM

#15347

SeaUlater

banned

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,797

What's why're?

Anyway, do you ever say anything that isn't clearly obvious?

You would straddle, even worse, double and triple straddle, but you wouldn't tip? I thought you're playing to make money.

05-19-2012 , 03:12 PM

#15348

dhcg86

banned

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 12,410

I didnt know tipping was bad for the game; I dont think thats clearly obvious

05-19-2012 , 03:13 PM

#15349

SeaUlater

banned

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 4,797

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhcg86

I didnt know tipping was bad for the game; I dont think thats clearly obvious

I'll troll along since my time is occupied with the soccer game.

Any other stupid comments you like to make?

You're THAT guy who sits at the table and comments about every hands.

"I knew you have flush, you raised when flush hits!"

"I knew you don't have anything..." after the guy mucked.