Sounds like cheating to me. How are you getting staked and he plays in that game and your going to play in it? I would stay away from that deal. Unless your room has 4+ tables daily.


Regarding staking, I think its something that almost has to be done to succeed in poker.

Making 15-25 bucks an hour its really hard to support yourself and save. I know I have major problems with this issue.

One should never eat a whole pack of cocktail shrimps by himself...

Staking and being staked is likely a losing proposition for both parties. I would suggest not doing it and if money is an issue, get a real job to cover rent and play poker part time at night during peak hours.

Also, if you are being staked never be responsible for any losses.

I dont think that staking HAS to be done. IMO its a good way to ruin friendships more then anything else.

Poker isnt for everyone, especially for a living. And if I had a girlfriend/wife/kids, I would never dream of potentially jeopardising their future by playing poker for a living.

I cant speak for everyone else, but I got my "start" by running up a small bankroll while working. I then had circumstances which meant I couldnt work for a few months, so decided at the point to "take a shot" at playing poker for a living for 3 months until I could work again. I actually broke even in that time, but ran amazingly horribly, and that gave me the confidence to go for it while slowly reducing work from 4-5 nights a week to twice a week, then once a week, and to where it is now where I have worked about 5 shifts for the company in the last 18 months. I only took this shot because I was unfortunate enough to very surprisingly inherit a large amount of money from out of the blue, which gave me enough of a backup if things ever went pear shaped to fall back on.

Stampler has a fantastic well going at the moment, but I was going to ask Venice and the other mods whether I would be able to write one when I have some spare time about basically NOT playing poker for anything more then a fun hobby, and how when you arent fully in control of your life something like poker can be addicting and can potentially ruin your life, like I nearly did with mine. It was only the help of two people (neither of whom I think I have ever played a hand of poker in their lives) that actually helped me get back on track from a pretty badly depressed spot I was in.

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Anyway, that was a very weird tangent. Back on topic though, about staking and lending money.

An "acquaintance" of mine, someone I know but wouldnt consider a friend but I have played a bit of indoor soccer with him and shared a few beers asked to borrow $200 to play in the 2/5 game (only game going). He would be a losing player lifetime I think, and despite offering 10% extra on return I said no, as I had all my money on the table at that point.

I actually had well more then enough in my pocket to give him that money and access to more. Does that make me a bad person, or just someone who just hates negative freerolls. (Yes, I have been stitched in the past, and one loan went for around 9 months before getting paid.)

I don't understand your reasoning.
If he can make more at 2/5 and build rep with being staked; why not do it?
I don't think we're worrying about paying bills etc.
Basically it comes down to whether or not you'd be making more at 1/3 than 50%(or whatever % is agreed upon) of what you win at 2/5.
Even if you make the same amount, I would rather be staked. Don't have to worry about losing money.

Bolded typo I assume!
Haha. Share the wealth!

To quote the Bible:

"The borrower is the servant of the lender"

If you are being staked the person staking you basically owns you, you are their "horse" and you work on their conditions.

Also, there is no way you are making more at 2/5 paying vig for the stake as opposed to 1/3. If there is only one game of 2/5 going the average player will be much more competent and your hourly won't be near the max (~50 $/hr if you are just omfg crushing it) except for peak hours during great games. However, 1/3 will always be filled with drunkies looking to have fun and you can grind out 25 $/hr easily.

Also if you are losing money I'd worry about losing the stake, and furthermore what if your guy goes busto and you have no roll? Being staked is the last hope of a desperate man.

Nope, no typo.

Money came from an immediate family member commiting suicide, so I would rather not have the money.

And to add, this isnt "ZOMG live forever without working money" its "pays for uni and maybe a nice car" money. And even if it was I still obviously take the no money option.

@ashley I was talking about the serious player one who wants a career in poker.

Lol, have you ever been staked? The staker doesn't "own" you. It's a mutually beneficial agreement(if it doesn't benefit you, then don't do it ^_^). If there are unfavorable things in the agreement that you don't like, then obv don't do it.
If the guy goes busto then you still made money at 2/5 and can go back to playing 1/3...?
When I say you don't have to worry about losing money, I mean you don't have to worry about going on soulcrushing downswings because you aren't taking the variance hit. Your staker is.
Again the only reasons you wouldn't want to take this stake is if A)Staker isn't trust worthy. B). If you make more at 1/3 (not saying you would make more at 2/5 with 50% split- just stating it comes down to hourly. Could def be possible to get more than 50% of yourself, or to win the same amount at 2/5 but not have to worry about variance)


@Ashley - Ah sorry. That's no good.

RE: staking

Basically the only time I would ever contemplate/give a stake would be for a tournament series or large individual tournament where I bought a piece of someone rather then paid their buyin. I would be loathe to give the stake for anything less then facevalue, because everyone in my playing group whom I might stake that I would be willing to pay an additional vig for, is already competant enough to not have wasted winnings on hookers and blow to actually be able to afford the buyin and to play in the games.

There are serious players who want to play poker like there are serious soccer/football players who want to play in the English Premier League.

Unfortunately for me, who also wanted to play as a forward for Manchester United as a kid, to be a footballer you need to actually be good at the game, have the right contacts, and not be an uncoordinated buffoon when playing sport.

And in the same way playing poker for a living also requires having a large bankroll as well as a great understanding of the game and the other players in the game. If you dont have both you cant play for a living, or at least certainly shouldnt be.

Apologies for drawing an incredibly long bow, but I just dont think anything good ever comes out of staking for the most part unless its either part of a huge operation ala Bax and Sheets or its for a tiny portion of time.

Usually its the guys who don't have careers, no job, in college who want to play poker. Without a stake you won't ever play mid stakes. I think a lot of good can come out of staking, it just needs to be the right person.

Now for the guys who have good jobs, poker should just be a hobby and never a profession.

Ok, let me ask you this then.
If nothing good ever comes from staking, then why do people do it? Lol...
Why is there a whole subforum for staking on 2p2?

Well there is good that can come from it. I think the best staker is someone who has a lot of money.

Say you get staked by some guy who has a little bit of money. You run hot and then you have a problem. You wouldn't need the backer anymore.

Now 2+2 staking is bull crap. All that makeup and half of winnings is something I would never do.

That's not a stake, that's a loan shark.

Agreed

(Disclaimer: Dont post on the staking forum, never read it, probably a mile off base)

My guess is that the staking on those sites are for either big tournament events, or for online play. Both of these things are relatively easy to track compared to live cash, particularly low stakes live cash (Yeah, I would probably consider the average 2/5 500cap game a small stakes game. A 1k game and 5/10 is probably where the game become midstakes with 20/40 becoming highstakes? Probably wrong but w/e, irrelevant. Live cash is a lot harder to track, and organise actual deals with people you have never met.

But if the best staker has a lot of money, then they dont really need to make money from backing horses. Now, if they spot a friend a few bucks when he is trouble, or some cash for a buyin one time fine.

But when its a deal between friends in the same game, its bound to end in disaster any number of ways. When you add in the trust issues then it can get a lot worse too, as to someone isnt lying about results etc...

If people want to stake, that is perfectly fine, and no skin off my nose as long as they arent both in the same game as me. But I wouldnt do it for a number of reasons.

Incidently, the only time I have ever got backing from someone was one night a few years ago where I didnt bring enough cash to a casino (Cant remember how the hell I did that. Eventually, a few friends I was out with, non-poker players, decided to spot me $75 to go with my $25 I had under a 3/1 deal on my winnings.

First orbit got Aces and made it 20 after two limpers at 2/3 (Game was 100 cap). I shove the flop after a few callers and get called by bottom set, gg)

Still cop **** for it 3 years later even though they know I play poker for a source of income through university.

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Incidently today, thanks to browsing 2+2 in the EPL thread, I managed to score 30 poker books including 20 2+2 books from an EPL poster who I presume was cleaning house with the only cost being shipping.

I run good.

A few days ago I almost drove into a ditch. Tonight I wasn't so lucky.

Leaving the casino I was going into a T interesection. I wasn't going all that fast, but the road was so bad that I couldn't stop at all. I went straight past the intersection and crashed head-first into a deep ditch. The front of my car got mashed in pretty badly. My airbag deployed and I was relatively unharmed. My car is probably totaled.

I loved my car so much. She sacrificed herself to keep me safe. R.I.P.

GG

There seems to be some confusion as to whether playing w/ your backer is cheating or not. Could those who think it is cheating please clarify why you feel that way? The only potential for cheating I can think of is in a multiway pot where you're both betting to drive someone out which I would never agree to do.
Getting a good mix of opinions on staking in general. It seems it will come down to what terms we agree upon. Please keep posting your opinions on this matter. Thanks!

Sorry about your car but thankfully you & no one else were injured.

Let everyone know at the table that you and your backer are on the same table. Problem solved.

Well my epic run is over. Friday night I was up 800 and stayed way too long, ended up -500. Yesterday I played a marathon 14.5 hours and ended up -95. Not too bad but I made 3 or 4 bad river calls which I should have let go. On one of these hands I rivered a set of KKs versus a rivered straight. It was my biggest mistake. I acted too fast and there were plenty of tells to show me I was beat.

This.

It's not cheating in the traditional sense that you are doing something against the rules of the game to increase your winrate significantly, it's just that you and your backer will play differently against each other because of this arrangement. It might be unintentional, but you are deceiving the rest of the table via a lie of omission.