Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

04-02-2014 , 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiroNakamara
Is making a small raise UTG with AA and then calling every raise/bet/All In to the river in your face enough?

Sometimes looks can be deceiving. Other times, they're exactly what they are.

I don't know any mid-50's balding guys who would take this line and call all bets with something worse than JJ. But then again, I guess anything is possible.
Such a line takes the "AG" out of "TAG."
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-02-2014 , 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke0424
3-betting 88-TT doesn't accomplish much IMO. Sometimes flatting with JJ will be better than 3betting even

Also calling a raise with ATo and A6s-A9s is going to be a leak for most players especially if the villain plays ok post flop.
Initiative though. Depending on V, 3! 88-TT can be good. Not always obv. And agree with JJ point.

And yeah, I do try to not fall in love with **** Aces whenever I can help it.
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-02-2014 , 04:26 PM
Thanks for the feedback on calling hand ranges. I'd summarize by saying (1) it is villain-dependent, and (2) it may or may not be ok to open up a bit from the calling ranges I specified, but at least there is no obvious flaw in it, and (3) I need to play some of those marginal hands sometimes, to avoid being too predictable.

Let me know if that isn't a fair summary or if you think I am missing something here.
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-02-2014 , 10:54 PM
(Tourny nowhere near bubble)

Start hand with 14BB. 5 handed.

Villain capable of getting a little frisky, nothing outrageous yet, pretty straightforward.

Raise 2BB PF, Flop top Pair middle kicker on super dry board, heads up, get c/r

Call to keep bluffs in and never folding.

standard??
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-05-2014 , 02:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by progress
(Tourny nowhere near bubble)

Start hand with 14BB. 5 handed.

Villain capable of getting a little frisky, nothing outrageous yet, pretty straightforward.

Raise 2BB PF, Flop top Pair middle kicker on super dry board, heads up, get c/r

Call to keep bluffs in and never folding.

standard??
Decide if you want to risk your tournament life after the c/r. If no, fold to the c/r. If yes, then played fine. (Ideally we would have an idea about this preflop)
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-05-2014 , 02:54 AM
2/5 short-handed (6 players).

UTG (stack 500) (I know hes a reg, but only have played a couple orbits with him. Seems straightforward) opens to 15. One fold, Hero (covers all) calls in CO with AJ. BTN (500, passive, loves to draw and overpays) calls as does BB (500, loose, plays a lot of hands, borderline maniac, also stationy) calls.

Flop (60) J92
BB checks, UTG bets 35, Hero calls, BTN calls, BB calls.

Turn (200) A
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bet size?
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-05-2014 , 04:40 AM
I'm betting close to pot here...^^^^... 160-175 to make QT and any flush draw pay.
There are now 2 flush draws and KQ is still a viable hand.
Top 2 are typically best here. If someone's got a set and shoves, then I'll probably fold. Otherwise, I'm stacking chips.
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-05-2014 , 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiroNakamara
I'm betting close to pot here...^^^^... 160-175 to make QT and any flush draw pay.
There are now 2 flush draws and KQ is still a viable hand.
Top 2 are typically best here. If someone's got a set and shoves, then I'll probably fold. Otherwise, I'm stacking chips.
You realize that you're advocating betting large enough that mostly only better will call us right?

If we think that V will call $175 with their flush draw, then sure bet that much. But we want to betting an amount that gives V incorrect odds to call, but still encourages them to call.

QT has 8 outs. Flush draws have 9 outs. These are 16% and 18% to improve, so if we give them a combined 6:1 IO + DO (or 5:1 for the flush draw) or less, then no matter what we bet, they are making a mistake. We don't want to bet so large that they fold, we want to bet an amount that encourages them to call and lose more more. Then if they hit on the river, we can make the correct read and check fold.
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-05-2014 , 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch
You realize that you're advocating betting large enough that mostly only better will call us right?

If we think that V will call $175 with their flush draw, then sure bet that much. But we want to betting an amount that gives V incorrect odds to call, but still encourages them to call.

QT has 8 outs. Flush draws have 9 outs. These are 16% and 18% to improve, so if we give them a combined 6:1 IO + DO (or 5:1 for the flush draw) or less, then no matter what we bet, they are making a mistake. We don't want to bet so large that they fold, we want to bet an amount that encourages them to call and lose more more. Then if they hit on the river, we can make the correct read and check fold.
Ok, I agree with this. But in this case, there are three other players. If we bet that small, their odds will improve as they all call. Does that change your analysis at all, and can you give a more precise number?
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-05-2014 , 08:01 PM
V1 early 20s Laggy 250
V2 late 40s tag and very solid 450
Hero mid 30s solid tag but has played lag at times 625

VI raised from co 15
V2 calls Hero calls from sb k♢10♧

I know that this is usually a snap fold pre but I know the strong player well and he doesn't mess around with me
easy target

Flop 7♡8♡9♢(48)

V1 c bets 35
V2 calls
Hero calls

Turn K♧ (153)

V1 checks
V2 bets 50
Hero calls V1 calls

River 9♤ 303

V1 checks
V2 bets 50

Hero? Any comments about any part of the hand are welcome

Thanks
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-07-2014 , 09:55 AM
Anyone?
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-07-2014 , 10:31 AM
Ya I would just fold pre. You could maybe call if a fish was involved offering big implied odds but even then KTo from the sb seems sketchy.

I would fold to the flop bet. Our draw isn't disguised and we aren't likely to get paid if we hit.

The villain is unlikely to be bluffing the turn and river and his sizing looks like he's going for value.
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-07-2014 , 10:59 AM
Regarding opening suited Aces in early position at your average 1/2 table.

I know conventional wisdom says not to raise them and to maybe limp if the table is passive enough. But I've been experimenting with raising them and it seems to be alright. I can barrel on dry flops and flops that give me backdoor draws. Hitting the Ace is tricky but I play pot control and depending on the villain I'll just fold to any resistance.

Also I like to raise them if there are limpers instead of limping behind. I know it's sweet to overflush somebody but I think taking the pot down pre or getting a limper to call with whatever speculative hand they have will add up to more profit.

Thoughts?
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-07-2014 , 08:13 PM
1/2
Read: V seems competent and has 700, it's about 9:30AM on Sunday morning so he's likely been playing all night. I haven't been at table long but have raised pre/cbet a few times with success, so aggro-ish image. I've got about 260 to start hand.

Fish limps UTG, I make it 15 in MP with QQd, V flats CO or button, blinds fold, UTG calls.

Flop 923r, pot 48.
UTG checks, I continue for 24, V calls pretty quickly, UTG folds.

Turn 923Add, pot 96
I c/f to a bet of 42? Seems wrong but I guess he doesn't need to raise flopped sets on dry board, A9 improved, 45 got there. I expected stuff like 77/88 that peeled flop to check behind since I could've just gotten there with AK/AQ.

Was also thinking it's gonna be expensive to bluff catch since I'll have 1x pot behind on the river.
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-07-2014 , 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by homerdash
1/2
Read: V seems competent and has 700, it's about 9:30AM on Sunday morning so he's likely been playing all night. I haven't been at table long but have raised pre/cbet a few times with success, so aggro-ish image. I've got about 260 to start hand.

Fish limps UTG, I make it 15 in MP with QQd, V flats CO or button, blinds fold, UTG calls.

Flop 923r, pot 48.
UTG checks, I continue for 24, V calls pretty quickly, UTG folds.

Turn 923Add, pot 96
I c/f to a bet of 42? Seems wrong but I guess he doesn't need to raise flopped sets on dry board, A9 improved, 45 got there. I expected stuff like 77/88 that peeled flop to check behind since I could've just gotten there with AK/AQ.

Was also thinking it's gonna be expensive to bluff catch since I'll have 1x pot behind on the river.
B/f turn about 60
Check/call most rivers.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using 2+2 Forums
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-08-2014 , 11:59 AM
1/3 NL, 10 handed

My great table broke, and I moved to the better looking one of the two remaining ones. I played a single hand at that table when 2 of the best players came from the other table to sit down with me, where I then changed immediately to the other table. So table hopping / bumhunting image for anyone paying attention.

I come to the table with $1700 (I've been getting hit with the deck vs morons, a great combination) and I'm the big stack. The regs at the table see me as a winning player (probably nitty postflop), the non-regs don't have a clue.

V1: $800. Asian 40ish woman. She's a reg who attempts to table select and even casino select (she'll often leave this casino and go to one 15 minutes a way if she feels the action is better). We don't have much history against one another. The previous session I raise a big pair in EP, get way too many callers (including her), I flop an overpair on a flush draw board, I bet half pot into the world, she shoves with her draw, I call cuz I feel committed against her stack (she put in 10% of it preflop, not horrendous given there were 4 callers in front of her and she was closing the action), I hold and stack her. She's probably a winning a player, probably sees me as nitty postflop player, and could possibly attempt to get me off a hand. Definitely not a moron. Can definitely be aggressive, although I can't say I've seen huge bluffs from her on later streets.

V2: $115. Clueless noob 50ish man who I've never seen before. He keeps buying in for $100-$150 at a time and getting stacked. TP- is the the nuts for this guy.


Preflop (10 players): Hero is LP with 7 6
UTG straddles to $6, a call, V1 calls, V2 calls, I call, BB calls, straddle checks

[I think preflop is standard. Low fold equity at this table and I don't think I should be attempting to iso V1 who has 20bbs effective with 7 high.]

Flop (6 players, $35): A 9 8
checks to V1 who looks like she wants to bet but checks, V2 bets $30, I miss-eyeball V2s stack and raise to $100 (I'm attempting to put him all-in), folds to V1 who tank calls, V2 shoves in the rest of his chips for all-in, I call (my only option), V1 calls

[I actually think this is a mistake on my part. Even though I have a monster draw, I'm rarely getting fishy V2 to fold, so I think I should just flat and perhaps invite others along. When V1 coldcalls, alarm bells are going off. I think it's too much for her to call with just a flush draw, although I guess she could have pair + draw. It's possible she has two pair. I doubt she has a set because I think she would reraise this board, I don't think she is MUBSy enough to believe 88 wouldn't be good enough here even though she is $800 deep. She never just has an A here, imo.]

Turn (3 players, 1 whose is all-in, ~$375): 3
V1 donks $200 (leaving $480 behind), Hero...

[Wtf? I doubt she is putting me on a flush draw. Is she setting her own price with her two pair / wtf set? Or does she have the flush? Or semi bluffing with a straight draw + flush draw? But why bluff into a 0 side pot? Do I somehow get out now? Do I just call and see what happens on the river? Or get it in? I called. Meh?]

River (3 players, 1 all-in, $775) 2
V1 bets $200 (leaving $280 behind), Hero...

[Again, I doubt she has me on a flush. Do I ship it in for value knowing that I just don't think she can fold two pair at this point? And I can't fold getting these odds, right?]

GcluelessNLnoobG
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-08-2014 , 12:19 PM
GG - if you flat call the flop, V2 is obviously shoving on the turn, now if you flat call V2's shove will V1 sense weakness and come over the top?

If so you can make V1's life terrible Ott.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using 2+2 Forums
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-08-2014 , 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MackCorl
GG - if you flat call the flop, V2 is obviously shoving on the turn, now if you flat call V2's shove will V1 sense weakness and come over the top?

If so you can make V1's life terrible Ott.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using 2+2 Forums
Although, when I'm considering whether to flat/raise V2's donk bet on the flop, I'm not really considering V1 at all since she hasn't expressed interest in the pot yet (apart from looking like she wanted to bet at it).
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-08-2014 , 12:43 PM
GG
I think when she donks the turn she has a flush and trying to extract value from you thinking you have a set or two pair often in your range that you may call to try and fill up on the river or if you made a small flush you may pay her off on the turn and river. With the A♢ being the only high ♢ on board she is too likely to have a high flush. Tough spot but I think the turn is a fold.
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-08-2014 , 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HWGWF
Regarding opening suited Aces in early position at your average 1/2 table.

I know conventional wisdom says not to raise them and to maybe limp if the table is passive enough. But I've been experimenting with raising them and it seems to be alright. I can barrel on dry flops and flops that give me backdoor draws. Hitting the Ace is tricky but I play pot control and depending on the villain I'll just fold to any resistance.

Also I like to raise them if there are limpers instead of limping behind. I know it's sweet to overflush somebody but I think taking the pot down pre or getting a limper to call with whatever speculative hand they have will add up to more profit.

Thoughts?
I think raising from EP is ok if you can avoid big pots with top pair/no kicker. You say you play pot control but of course this is harder out of position (like everything else).

As for in position, both are fine depending on your read of the table and their read of you. If I can truly isolate someone with a raise, then by all means let's do it. If you raise and all the limpers call, then I don't like it as much.
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-08-2014 , 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19ki
GG
I think when she donks the turn she has a flush and trying to extract value from you thinking you have a set or two pair often in your range that you may call to try and fill up on the river or if you made a small flush you may pay her off on the turn and river. With the A♢ being the only high ♢ on board she is too likely to have a high flush. Tough spot but I think the turn is a fold.
Ya, I was thinking this as well. Also hate the fact that I'm playing in a limped pot (albeit straddled) for 267bb stacks.

Although, I also found it tough because I doubt she puts me on a flush draw and it's possible she's doing some werid donk bet on the scare card with two pair or a set or whatever because she doesn't know what else to do. Can I call to reevaluate river action? But then I'm getting too good of odds to call a lot of river bets thanks to lol sizing. Ug.

GhatedthishandG
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-08-2014 , 01:08 PM
GG: I would consider folding the turn. 2 pair would not slowplay the flop and then bet into a dry side pot after the flush card comes--at least not in any game I'm used to playing. But maybe you'd know better?

This looks an awful lot like JT to me, though...the extra straight outs would explain how your raise didn't push her out on the flop, and I think she knows you can have a flush here because you said she's capable of raising with draws (so I'd bet that means she tends to think her opponents can too). EDIT: I'm sure many flushes with the 9d are possible too. Disgusting spot.
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-08-2014 , 02:02 PM
Vernon nailed her hand. I called the river and at the time chalked it up to a cooler (especially since even though I misplayed the flop I think she would have check/raised anyways to build the big pot, lol at 2 OESFDs, wtf). But as others have said, I think the turn was the right place to exit.

GnothappywiththishandG
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-08-2014 , 02:16 PM
As easy as it is for me to criticize, I've played a hand like this myself where I hit the same kind of flop you did and could not get away. At least yours was at 1/3 and not 2/5 like mine was. (But we both managed not to dump an entire stack, which is kind of a victory.)
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote
04-08-2014 , 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallMeVernon
As easy as it is for me to criticize, I've played a hand like this myself where I hit the same kind of flop you did and could not get away. At least yours was at 1/3 and not 2/5 like mine was. (But we both managed not to dump an entire stack, which is kind of a victory.)
I'm just glad she didn't shove the river (which is really the only bet size to make, imo). Although I *guess* I might manage a hero fold (???). Kudos to her for donking the turn (most opponents wouldn't), which totally takes pot control out of the picture for me (which I may have considered).
Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Quote

      
m