Meh. Probably a call given odds. But given (lack of) reads it's hard to say.

Some reads would be helpful, but generally if I'm calling flop then I'm calling this turn card as well.

Yea no real reads, only been playing for like a half hour and villain is unknown. After calling flop I thought I had to call any non diamond or it’d be to weak but prolly should of picked a better spot. Pocket 10s is not really good to have here, we block jd10d, Qd10d, 10d7d and are now losing to K10. Meh stupid spot to get in

Yeah I was thinking it would be a long term spew especially when there isn't a lot of 3betting going on.

Thanks for the feedback.

I don't like calling at all. The only benefit would be to possibly invite along maniac who happens to have a worse A/K and we get to stack them on a A/K flop, but that's just too many stars aligning. Plus we can't just be sticking in a quarter of our stack preflop to then fold when raiser undoubtedly shoves when we whiff.

Pretty clear shove vs fold spot, imo. Against a tight opener who is simply trying to isolate maniac from EP (where he can't really be widening his range too much cuz too good a chance the world wakes up with a hand behind him) and no other significant dead money in the pot, I probably fold.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Couple line checks from yesterday's sesh -

First hand when I sat down
KK in MP2
UTG limp
MP1 raises to 25, I 3-bet to 100, MP1 calls
Flop A86
MP1 check, I bet 125, raised to 350
I fold

Standard C-bet here?

Second hand
AA in UTG
I open to 25, UTG2, MP2 call
Flop 347
I bet 50, UTG2 call
Turn 6
I bet 90, UTG2 jams for 390 more
I fold

UTG2 villain had been calling very wide pre, suited 3-gappers, unsuited connectors. Likes to float with any pair or gutshot as well. His jam with the board seems to smash his range, lots of 2p and straights. Easy sigh fold?

check first hand, i see very few hands that KK beats isoing, calling a 3b, and then c/c’ing this flop. i also doubt you’re betting 125 with the big hands here

I was thinking we have a lot of Ax in our 3b range so should be betting here, no? Wouldn’t checking basically tell our opponent we have an underpair and can be barreled off the hand? If V called my Cbet, plan was to shut down OTT.

2/5/10, eff 780. I raise 35 MP with red JJ. Good TAG pro in B.B. goes to 125. I call. Flop is 633 hh he bets 90 I call. Turn 7h, he shoves 550 into 440.

He's 3 betting a lot of his continuing range from the BB. Post flop, I'm pretty sure he shoves here with most/all of his Ah Kh Qh non flush combos. He is capable of also doing it with AK, AQ no heart type hands, although not sure at what frequency. Don't think he is overshoving here with AhAx and KhKx or of course Axhh but potentially with 10h10 and QhQ.

Feel like I'm totally guessing and I hate these spots.

I'd call it off. The shove is kind of suspicious. He could have a big pair without a heart, but in that case we've got a bunch of outs. I don't think he shoves hands that have us really crushed. Too lazy to equilab up a range but it feels like we should be doing fine against him.

i mean, it depends on villain. for example:

fish logic on flop: “he bet with an Ace on board, i don’t have one, i fold JJ”

fish logic on turn: “he didn’t bet on the Ace flop, he doesn’t have one, i cawl”

as you were saying, having some number of Ax to check back is great because we can make easier calls against later aggression, disguise our KK- checks, and get worse calls from our opponents later if they keep checking.

not saying you have to check everything every time but it has to be a bigger range than air/JJ. i like checking this hand with the backdoor to the nuts so a ♥️ turn isn’t the worst (especially since the Ace is a ♥️ which should reduce FD combos that called a 20bb 3ball), and there’s only 1 possibly 2 bets to finagle out of villain’s worse hands and we reduce our outlay against better hands.

ETA: i don’t like flop sizing as it looks like a V fold is preferred to a call, so if V was really good he might just call BS and do this with anything.

rip it pre given description

are you playing 78bb because the cash ban is well underway in dot AU?

nope. was first orbit and my habit is to buy in for 800 and sit at that level for an orbit or two. Have been doing it since I started at this steak when I was underrolled and have just continued with it

So you're saying it's better to expand checking range with some TP+ hands in 3b pots vs. just firing most of our 3b pre range? Makes sense as it's lower variance, but I'd imagine you'd lose some value on hands that you'd want 3 streets of value from like 2p or top set.

What would you size the Cbet at? I've been doing 1/3-1/2 pot in 3b pots as a "standard" sizing. I guess since we're deeper, we'd want to make it more like 150-180?

some is the important word, and it doesn’t have to be strictly the same hands. one aspect of Harrington’s books/strat i like is splitting your actions but it doesn’t have to be 50/50, e.g. betting AQ 85% of the time and checking 15%. he advocated using the second hand on Hero’s watch (so in the above: 15% of 60 seconds is 9, so check when second hand is between :00-09 but you have to make that decision at the same time each time, whether that’s the flop being spread or V checking or w/e).

there are other randomizations available without a watch like the suit/rank of the door card (or dealer’s rightmost card for Euro flops), as long as the math checks out for the percentages you want to do each thing.

i think as long as you’re betting air/draws most of the time, it’s fine to bet the 2p/sets+ pretty much every time unless there’s a valid reason to diverge from that. my reasoning was more for one pair hands that are deece but can’t necessarily give/take a lot of heat over 3 streets.

for sizing it really depends, you can see in FW’s hand above the competent villain made a large 3bet and then bet 1/3 on the flop HU on a paired board, allowing him a great price to cbet AK/AQ but also giving FW a great price to call if V has a big pair and wants a call. basically you wanna have consistent sizing where cbetting for fold equity and value look the same, sometimes it’ll be a bigger size as you’re saying but depends on board/opponents/metagame/etc.

So I’ve had that exact though which is why I started sometimes checking back AK after 3 betting on A high boards and it rarely induces a bluff on the turn in my experience.

So much of his range after calling a 3 bet will include an A and I don’t think you are going to get double barrel bluffed off your hand that often. I don’t think betting is terrible because sometimes you will get value from worse but mostly I’m just checking back.

if you're mostly checking back nutted Ax on an A-high flop in 3b pots you need to be betting some other value hands if your current betting range on A-high flops is mostly air (esp against players with half a brain).

KK - Standard check OTF. You can check AK here sometimes to retain value in your flop checks. Even if we didn't though, what do we accomplish from betting? Having the K is even more reason to check since we block all those suited broadway FD's V could have opened and called a 3b with.

AA - 2/3 pot on a fairly dry board? I'd size around half. I think people's calling ranges are elastic here & we don't want to fold out too much. That turn card isn't great for us. Some reads would help b/c there are some people I'll continue getting value from, but in general, I'm likely to check turn & let V try to bluff @ a blank river.

Good point about the blocker in KK hand, were not getting much value from worse pairs or FDs by betting. I guess I’ll just starting checking some Ax in this spot to balance my checking range OTF.

AA hand, I posted my read below. I think V has quite a few 2p/sets/straights OTT that beat me. My thought during the hand was to get max value from 7x and smaller over pairs. If I x turn and he bets out 2/3rds pot turn/jam river, are you calling down?

2 more line checks from recent sesh (btw, all the feedback has been super helpful and I feel like I'm learning a lot - thanks y'all!!!)

Both 5/5, 500 eff
Hand 1
JJ in UTG open to 25, 2 callers
Young asian w/ headphones (ABC TAG) on BTN 3-bets to 150
I 4-bet shove

Is this too strong to GII with JJ pre? Thought he might be squeezing with a wider range than normal OTB, and didn't want to flat JJ and have to play OOP with 1+ overcards OTF.

Hand 2
Black QQ in SB
MP2 (young asian woman, aggressive postflop, has decently wide limping range pre) limps
I raise to 30
BB (loose gambler calling everything pre) calls
MP2 calls

Flop: 644
I check, BB bets 60, MP2 raises to 160
Hero?

Should I be flatting here, then jamming most turns? I feel like 3betting here is overplaying my hand, and not sure anything worse like TT/JJ is calling. On the other hand, not sure what I'd do if turn peeled a , as IMO MP2's range is mostly middling OP (77-99), combo draws (57dd, 78dd) and Axdd.

Getting it in with JJ is a bit loose there. People don't usually attack UTG raises light. It's probably not terrible because that threebet sizing from an ABC TAG is most frequently AK, but it's a bit loose.

Interesting choice to check flop hand 2. I'm fine with it. If MP2 is aggro enough to raise draws in this spot she's probably aggro enough to raise 77-99 pre. I'd say she has mostly draws. Flat and jam on non-diamonds, check fold on diamonds. Except the Q

Are you folding JJ pre then? If I just flat there's not much manuverbility post with SPR of 1. Felt like folding was too weak in the moment.

I would either be jamming or folding, yeah. It depends on how much threebetting is happening in the game. Folding is definitely not like the game theory move here, it's exploitative. Depends on whether you mean an "ABC TAG" in the context of poker in general or in the context of LLSNL. In my experience people don't threebet UTG raises as much as they should, so I tend to give threebets of UTG raises a lot of respect, but YMMV.

1/3. Villain I 3-bet is a TAG-fish w/ bet-sizing tells pre, so opted for isolation/thin-value/initiative vs pure set-mining. Villain in BB is a LAG-fish I've seen make some OK folds vs the nittier guys & has commented a couple times on how tight I'm playing. Limp/re-raiser drops alot of poker buzzwords & is playing on his tablet simultaneously. He bought in short for ~ 65BB, is loose/passive pre, and weak/tight post from what I can tell. I basically put him/4-bettor on QQ+/AK (I saw him RFI/fold AQo earlier). Getting ~ 2.3:1, I knew it was really close, but I didn't know if I could give a passive guy all AK combos. We're playing 9-handed. Effective stack is $156, but I'm @ about $350. Thoughts? Thanks.

Hero (HJ): 9 9

Reg-fish (UTG) limps $3, random calls $3, TAG-fish (MP) raises $11, Hero 3b $40, fold x 3, LAG-fish (BB) calls $40, Reg-fish 4b $153 all-in, fold x 2, Hero folds

stop calling people fish. it's immature.

and it's certainly not helpful in this situation where the hand is confusing enough without having 3 different villains who each have a fish assignment